Lets Get "Defensive"!!

General General Discussion
1

“I have over 300 rounds through my DPMS, ShrubMaster, PlumCRAZY and it works perfect!”

“I really dont see the point of spending $1,000 dollars on a rifle when its all the same thing!”

Does this look familiar?

I have been seeing this more and more lately, on top of hearing it.

What is going on with the THREAD(s) that get posted after someone has an insufficient amount of rounds that is BARELY a standard break in period, and thinking that their rifle is just as good if not BETTER than top tier mfg. company.

After this amazing “feat” that their rifle has just established, they come a runnin’ to M4C to share and BOAST about how thier “X” brand is just as good as"Y", almost as if to say, “Look what I just did! You should go sell your overpriced carbine and come join me! It works just as good!”

I got into an argument just the other day about a guys PlumCrazy crap, him and his “protege” were telling me that it was just as good as Glock, they were both polymer,whats the difference?!?!

My argument lasted about 5 minutes, Idiots drag you down to thier level, then BEAT you with experience. It was a losing battle.

If you want to shoot garbage and put a WalMart RDS on it, cool.

But I dont want to hear about it… Or see the stupid thread about it having 500 rounds through it and it functions perfect.

After that, when you explain that it only takes TIME for something to happen, they DEFEND thier little hearts out and get pretty mad.

You will LOSE a friend over thier poor decision making.
It happens.
They ask, "Hey try it, just try it! Its just as good!
When you decline…thats when the “Butthurtedness” shows up.

So my question is…

      WHY...WHY the need to PROVE your sub par build is

“As good as”, or “Better” than top tier.

If you have a premium product, you will KNOW, and you shouldnt have to try and PROVE or defend it.

2

I forgot the term, but it is the individual looking for acceptance and reinforcement that their choice was a good one. When they are defending their choice with someone that knows better, or should know better, it is cognitive dissonance that their percieved view of reality is the correct one and they have a need to convince you that their sometimes poor choice was the right one so they can say up is up and their rifle is just as good. Too late to type more than that, gotta get some rest. Long day tomorrow.

3

Nothing more need be said on the subject really.

4

Read my “My friend just bought a .338 Lapua” and “My idiot friend wants a .300 Win Mag” threads in the PRecision bolt action rifle forum.

Its not limited to ARs.

Guy with zero experience shooting anything bolt action. Couldn’t even tell you what 1 MOA at 500 yards or at 1 MIL at 100 yards is.

But he’s got his .338 and he’s more badass than I am. :confused:

5

i like the guys that have never shot an AR and want to make sure they are getting the most “accurate” one
or who are buying a glock with the intention to bubba it and make it more reliable :confused:

6

I have a Dpms stripped lower that I built up with a DD parts kit, I’m sure it’ll hold up. I would not use a dpms barrel or bcg. Most of the gun shows on tv seem to push RRA, bushmaster, dpms etc. sometimes S&W. Once in a while I see a DD ad but only once BCM. I wonder if the shooting public in general are mainly exposed to these lesser quality guns? I’m sure outside of this forum, many have never heard of BCM, DD and some others. Colt might be the one that some have heard of but I was reading a totally misinformed “what’s the best AR manf.” article the other day and it told the reader how colt was the worst one.

7

This is the reason I think they think RRA and DPMS is awesome top of the line, I mean, if its on TV then its GOTTA be badass.

I know a few guys that when they see my rifles, they claim “I have never heard of them”, in a tone that suggests, "You should have gone with an RRA/B.M etc.

The worst part is the people I know that actually KNOW they could have picked up a Colt, try an “Prove” to me after they have 300 rounds.

8

I read this.

Its another thing that eerks the shit out of me, they have to own the shit they can show off…when they have no idea how to use it

9

This type of attitude is all over the place not just guns.

I used to work in a shop that did things like turbo installs, springs, exhausts, ect. Lots of ricer type cars but it was through my HS and I got double credits…

Anyways dipshits would come in with a car that they cut the factory springs because they were too cheap to buy a set of even $150 or $200 springs. Then they drive down the road and bounce all over the place. Some of them would lie and say they had real springs before but the cut ones work better, and try to get us to agree or say it was ok to do.

On the other hand we had quite a few guys who put a lot of money in their cars, did semi pro racing on the weekends, ect. We had a few cars we sponsored as well.

Theres always going to be cheap bastards out there who skimp on stuff, and then try to say its “just as good as” quality (and pricey) equipment. Theres no shortage of jack wagons out there who bubba stuff together, buy the cheapest crap they can, and ride around like they’re hot shit.

Same thing with guns. For a lot of people its how something looks and not how it actually performs. As long as they had a set of aftermarket rims, fart can exhaust, and it was lower than stock they thought they were driving a race car. :rolleyes:

10

Well, that analogy makes sense because if ever pressed their ‘awesome’ kludges become safety liabilities more than anything else.
The difference with most cars is that there is a bit of logic to the ‘it will go point A to point B’ equivalence, but only because regular automobiles are driven within such a tiny amount of their mechanical performance envelope when tooling around town.

To which as a pure economist, I’d say most AR-tard owners are getting a better value out of a Hesse/Vulcan 1337 special with the entire wal-mart sourced accessory bin attached: they think it looks awesome, and it goes bang on the sporadic occasions it goes to the range most of the time.

The value of a quality rifle ONLY makes sense if you’re looking at it as safety hardware, or are going to use it enough for part lifetimes to be relevant.

I’d take Boris Said in a granny-mobile and LAV with a Mosin over an idiot in an Enzo and somebody clueless behind an M82.

11

Now that’s funny, but truly stated. :smiley:

12

Yeah but not all cars get from one point to another at the same rate of speed, with the most safety features, comfort, and reliability. :wink:

13

I understand what you’re saying and I have to say that for the most part I agree with you. But on AR’s I’m not to sure. I have a colt, bushy, and am in the process of building onto a barret 6.8 upper so I think I have a pretty good range of ARs.
The USBP uses Bushmaster ARs, the mexican military and police use Bushmaster ARs.

I have a bushmaster M4orgery that I will run 150-300rds through per range trip! I have about 1500-1700rds through it and haven’t had an single issue. Is it a top tier AR? Nope. does it work and do I consider it my “working AR” that I take with me to the range or on trips? Yep.

So I don’t know what to tell you. I’m not trying to push my bushy onto you and I’m not trying to compare my bushy with your ultimatic AR build that was:
“Forged with the anger of the damned and cooled in Angels tears!”

I can tell you that when people come up to me with assinine claims…oh wait I’ve never had anyone come up to me with assinine claims because they respect my judgement and I don’t tout one product over the other! What I do tell them is to get the best they can for the money they’re willing to spend or can afford. Keep the maintenance up on it and practice with it.
If they ask my opinion I don’t tell them something like it was written on the back of the ten commandments. I tell them studies have shown this to be the case, and then give them the numbers and let them figure it out for themselves.

You see man on their base level will strive to be the best and do the best they can. Also most people, given the proper information, and left to their own devices will make the right choices!

14

The thing about it is no one is saying a BM cannot run well just that it does not have the testing done or QC as some other brands. This makes it more likely someone will have an issue like a canted FSB which they are somewhat famous for.

The purpose of testing parts is to weed out bad ones. That doesn’t mean every part is bad. Just means you’re more likely to get a part that would be rejected by someone else, and that means its more likely to fail.

Im sure there are tons of people out there who shoot BM guns without issue. However you are more likely to get one with an out of spec chamber, over gassed or a canted FSB. As to the quality of their small parts I don’t doubt most of the time they are ok but why take the risk? For someone looking for their first AR if they do a little research they can buy a brand that puts more care into their guns for the same amount of money or marginally more.

I could understand buying a BM back when there were very few brands to choose from. Now there are more than you can shake a stick at, and BM has been left in the dust when it comes to QC and quality as a brand. Individual guns do not make or break an entire brand who has been making AR’s for decades. DPMS has been making guns for a long time, too, and Ive seen a half dozen of them fail on the range just from bi weekly to monthly shooting over a year and a half period.

At the same time, six years in the Army, shooting all Colt M16 A2’s and A4’s the only time there were issues was when people ran them dry or had a bad mag. A few broken stocks and handguards when people mistreated them. We never into small parts breakage, out of spec chambers, canted FSB’s, and all the other issues that tend to crop up in other brands. Our A4’s were all taken new out of the box about a year before I got there.

15

WHY…WHY the need to PROVE your sub par build is
“As good as”, or “Better” than top tier.

For many people, a firearms purchase is an emotional purchase. Add to it that many people invest their identity in their firearm choice. It becomes a badge of how cool / smart they are. When you reject their choice, they perceive it as a slam on them. That creates the need to step up and justify their choice and by extension themselves.

Go to a gun show if you want to see individuals have positive glee over buying something they don’t really know much about. To the uninitiated, an AK is an AK and an AR is an AR. They have no understanding about what separates one manufacturer’s product from another. They go by look and feel since they lack knowledge. It’s unrealistic to expect them to accept the bad news that they wasted money on an inferior product with stoic calm.

16

I can understand that.

Im talking about the people who know better specifically.
Refuse to take advice.
Then out of spite, try and prove to people that it is good without anything over a couple hundred rounds.

Like I said…its not even a round count BARELY high enough to be a break in period let alone a count high enough to deem the rifle worthy of home defense or a SHTF scenario.

Lets not even mention running it in a class to find out if it can handle ANY kind of abuse.

17

I think you are likely safer being critical of someone’s spouse, than their choice of firearms.

Which is often a sad commentary on all their decisions, when you think about it.

18

Gun rags… thats where most folks knowledge base originates. I hear it all the time from family, friends and co-workers. All they know is what they saw in a magazine, or on the shelf at Academy. Folks around here are fans of Stag and DPMS for some reason.

On Thanksgiving my wifes Uncle was by my car and spotted my SBR in the back. He, being a “gun guy” wanted to take a look at it. The gun is conprised of parts from DD, BCM, LMT, Centurion and Aimpoint. It is however built on a RRA registered lower that I’ve had for years. So, of course, the first thing he did was roll it over to see who made it. “Rock River Arms huh? They make good stuff”. I just bit my lip and watched him struggle to try and fully extend the stock to the fully extended default Bubba setting. I didn’t bother to tell him that I’d made a stop for my desired LOP.:smiley:

19

Why is this the “Coolest” and FIRST thing that people do when handling your rifle? :lol:

With the exception of two people I know…this is the First thing they do, its usually accompanied by an elbow shoulder to neck high

20

I just brought a friend who has this type of mentality to a VSM class a few weeks ago. His super carry, awesome night sighted Duracoated pistol went tits up on the first live fire exercise. Not only did he look like “that guy”, he had quite a learning experience. What he paid for the duracoat, he could have had a better gun.
I am taking him to a carbine class next!..:lol: