So my wife watches all these murder shows on Discovery ID (makes me a little nervous!). I am appalled at the amount of 2nd Degree Murder charges pled to instead of 1st Degree. Like they deserved death or life in prison.
My question is this: does the victim’s family have to agree to plea deals, or is it just the prosecutors being lazy? If it was my loved one I’d want the fvcker crucified and would NEVER agree to a plea deal. In fact, if the DA ignored me and went for a plea I’d be the next one in jail.
I’ve seen them say some bullshit about “Closure for the family” but you know damn well there are vindictive mofos out there (like myself) who want blood, so I have my doubts about how many people actually agree to something lesser. It’s amazing how many of these cases don’t get what they deserve.
After Googling it further that seems to be the “verdict”. Now, I am specifically referring to murder, not armed robbery/assault/rape/etc. I know those get pled down very often…case in point, my wife had county jury duty for the last 2 months but never got called, as the cases were adjudicated without trials.
Murder cases shouldn’t be permitted to plea down. Well, premeditated murder cases anyway, not a fight, negligence, or possible self-defense case. My reading seemed to indicate a cost and time factor for prosecutors coming into play, but it’s their fvcking job and why they exist. While I think it’s just a lazy excuse, the possibility of a jury hanging and having to do it all over again was another reason listed, but again I refer to my last sentence. Worst-case scenario they let the bastard go, then perhaps true justice can be done.
To me, cold-blooded murder is the top of the criminal “food chain” and all available resources should be committed to adjudicate it properly (i.e. not pleading down).
Regarding the death penalty, if your state doesn’t have it then that obviously isn’t something you can demand as a family member of the victim. That said, if there is such a penalty then I feel you should have the right to demand that the POS is charged as such with that as a possible penalty. Either way, max possible charge for cold-blooded murder.
There is also possibility of the plea deal where the person didn’t do what they are accused of, but assume they will get convicted anyway, so they plead guilty to get a lighter sentence than what they are threatened with.
I haven’t watched a lot of the Read trial(and it is unknown if Read was offered a plea deal), but it seems to be likely it is more corrupt than the screw job Rittenhouse was put through.
Political considerations have a very large impact on whether there’s a plea for a murder charge. Some prosecutors are lazy. Virtually all will weigh the odds of getting a conviction. Is a 2nd degree murder plea better than a 1st degree murder charge that has a 50% chance of conviction? Remember that someone can’t be tried twice. Finally, some people are legitimately overcharged.
I have a good friend who got completely blackout drunk and ended up getting arrested. The town he’s in is pretty well policed. Someone called the police on him because he was being loud. When they showed up, he started cussing at the officers. He literally didn’t remember much of what happened, but they ended up charging him with four felonies for assault on a police officer and one misdemeanor for trespassing. He thought that he was screwed. He hired the best attorney in town who got the bodycam video. He watched it all and there was absolutely nothing that could be construed as assault on a police officer. The closest thing was possibly him tripping over one of the officer’s feet. I didn’t believe him when he told me this, so he let me watch all of the videos. From what I saw, he should have been charged with public drunkenness or perhaps disorderly conduct. His attorney told the prosecutor, and the prosecutor watched the videos. The prosecutor dropped the four felony assault charges and dismissed the trespassing charge because he actually wasn’t trespassing at his own apartment complex, all in exchange for him writing an apology letter to each of the police officers. So, he served no time other than the one night until he was bailed out and has no conviction. However, it cost him $17,000 in attorney fees. My personal opinion is that he pissed off the officers when he cussed and called them names and they overcharged him knowing that he’d have to spend a boatload of money on an attorney.
I guarantee you, like me, balk at government spending. Yet that sentiment exists in contradiction to your sentiment quoted above. Nothing is free.
I agree with you here. I am pointing out why we have the situation. Any agency has limited resources and millions of voters who want them to spend less. Basically the same a recent thread about the USPS.
Editing to add: It is doubtless cheaper after-the-fact for a county or state to go with a lesser charge. I recall reading about rural counties having to raise taxes after pushing for a death conviction, due to the never-ending appeals that can drag on for more than a decade.
If it was my loved one (or yours I’d wager) and it was cold-blooded murder, I guaran-fvcking-tee you that we’d want the perp strung up post haste. There would be NO agreements on my behalf, and I’d be up that prosecutor’s ass about it.
For instance, (God forbid) my wife is in a gas station paying for gas and some snacks. Some POS comes in and robs the place, shooting both the clerk and my wife on his way out, “‘cause we can’t be havin’ nonna dem snitches”.
I would stop at nothing to see that fvcker DEAD, be it the state or by my own hand. That is not even considering a 2nd Degree Murder charge that might be thrown out as a plea deal because the prosecutor is friggin’ lazy or—GASP!!!—it may cost some $$$ to properly and righteously prosecute the sub-human scum who did it. Ironically, they’d surely hang ME out to dry if I had the temerity to off the bastard since the legal system wouldn’t play ball. THAT is the kind of crap I’m talking about.
If you’re still sticking to your $$$ argument, then we will have to vehemently disagree. As I said previously, that’s what DA’s exist and are paid quite well for. The stupid shit we spend money on but a First Degree Murder case will be pled down to save a few bucks and some lazy prosecutor’s time? Nah, I don’t think so.
*[The above is similar to one of the scenarios I overheard on my wife’s “murder” channel a few years ago. Don’t recall where it happened or when but the circumstances were close and I was appalled at what the outcome was. That channel has some fvcked-up shit on it! The family was at least pleased the POS got something… That ain’t me]
And be sure to really have the facts straight as to who did what.
I think i have mentioned on here before, my only support for cops/legal system is having an impartial party looking for, and at, facts.
I don’t want to pass Jim and Doug going to visit their Aunt Betty who just had a heart attack in her front yard and assume i knocked her over the head so they run me down and lynch me from the nearest tree.
BUT
If my option is Officer Johnson, Prosecutor Jones, and Judge James conspiring against me(along with about a million colleagues) to get a false conviction due to egos, furthering their careers, or what ever them i am going to prefer taking my chances with Jim and Doug, win or lose.
Here in Tennessee reportedly 2-5% of criminal cases go to trial. Most all criminal cases are resolved via plea bargains.
The notion of increasing capacity to provide for 100% trial outcomes, including buildings, attorneys, investigators, clerks and all, as well as jurors, not to mention appeals… is simply not doable regardless of funding. I mean… someone actually has to go to work to keep society operating.
Gonna go out on a limb and guess a lot of the back log stems, at least indirectly, from criminalizing crap that shouldn’t be.
It’s like the DOJ/NRA monster of Project Exile of using federal courts to go after people being armed while(allegedly) committing local crimes.
The claim was state/local prosecutors just couldn’t deal with crimes such as stealing so the feds needed to prosecute people for gun crimes.
That should triggered the question as to what the state/local prosecutors were actually doing instead of calling for a federal power grab, giving the media more chances to say “gun crime”, and encouraging everyone to "“SWAT” gun owners with an ad campaign to “call 555-555-5555 if you think you see an illegal gun”.
I would also guess at this. But then again, both the conservative and liberals that I know don’t want “petty crime” happening in their neighborhoods or in front of their kids. The more frequent, minor, crimes (perhaps “infraction” would be a better word for the example I chose) including things like speeding in a school zone, are just that: more frequent. And therefore, if they are to be addressed, they take more resources that the infrequent larger crimes that, because they have more dramatic punishments, also require a stronger prosecuting position.
I hear ya. However, I don’t view all murders, cold-blooded or otherwise, through the same lens.
If a gangbanger kills one of his rival bangers I’m not eager to give up a few weeks of my life as a juror to necessarily provide the accused a trial. I’m fine with a plea of guilty in exchange for a 30 year sentence instead of life or whatever. Maybe he gets killed in prison anyway. win/win/win.
The problem is saying out loud what most everyone is thinking… The world is better place with one less criminal punk above dirt. Of course ya can’t say it else risk the wrath of the fake outrage crowd.
I understand the argument of what if the wrong POS banger was arrested? The dirty little secret is that the fake outrage crowd doesn’t care unless in front of a camera.
A friend of mine came up with a good solution to the court backlog and years long wait on death row. Instead of all that each family member of the victim gets a ball peen hammer and ten minutes with the convicted murderer/rapist/molester. That way justice is dealt out accordingly.
That ain’t me]