Many of us feel it’s okay and tactically sound to leave an AR for HD with a round chambered.
But what about other long guns? Lets consider the following semi-auto weapons:
-AK’s
-M1A’s
-HK’s
-Uzi’s
-FAL’s
-Shotguns (semi auto and pump)
Are any of these “safer” to leave in condition one than the others? Whats safe anyway? Won’t fire on it’s own? “Probably” won’t fire if dropped a certain way?
Safety on… its safe.
That said, its just me and the girl. No gremlins running around… few years anyway!
What’s safe?
I wouldn’t leave a light trigger gun with no safety on just out… I’ve been known to leave my stock M&P out with no holster though(no safety). Its up to you to decide what you think is safe.
No well made gun is going to fire, even if dropped, with the safety on.
This gentlemen pretty much nailed it. It is really ultimately up to you to determine what “safe” really is. A mechanical safety on a firearm is just that. Me personally do not leave my “HD” carbine with a loaded chamber. Think about it…if I go for my carbine for whatever scenario at hand, I will most likely do a press check so I might as well rack a round in and go to work. How much quicker is it realistically than just grabbing said carbine already chambered and doing the same? Plus, I have a 10 and a 1.5 year old boys. YMMV though.
This about sums it up. You determine what is “Safe” in your own home. Both my Shotgun, my HD carbine, and my EDC is loaded and ready to go.
A note on the AK- There was a period of time when my ‘kept in an at-the-ready condition’ gun was an Arsenal 5.45 gun.
I personally have no problem with safety on and round chambered in an AK, but KNOW YOUR GUN. There is variation among receivers, aftermarket fire control groups, and methods of axis pin retention. Improperly spec’d components, poor quality parts, and/or improper installation of whatever’s retaining the axis pins (the ‘shepherd’s hook’, on Romanian guns) can lead to strange situations. It’s within the realm of possibility for conditions to exist where the gun discharges when the safety is disengaged, or when a trigger or hammer pin either walks out or breaks.
I believe it was Grant that first hand observed a safetied AK discharge when one of the pins walked out (or broke?), in an AK-centric class. He posted about the incident here. This was many years ago, so my recollection is foggy, but the basic lesson with AKs was- in a world where we have to contend with OEM and US-made receivers, many types of non-OEM FCGs, many kinds of OEM and aftermarket safety selectors, and methods of axis pin retention that weren’t originally designed for the gun (as we’re stuck with semi-only FCGs), you really, really have to be familiar with your gun.
In my case, my AK was the only long gun I shot regularly and trained with, and had several cases of 7n6 through it. Personally, I would not be so confident with AKs that I didn’t have that much familiarity with.
Because most rifles and shotguns lack a drop safety, I store them with a loaded magazine with the hammer down on a empty chamber.
Still very fast to get into action, if required, and in a fire the ammo in the mag will cook off but there won’t be any projectiles leaving at high speed.
H
I did consider the fire hazard. It’s far-fetched, but so is any house fire. Handguns can cook off a chambered round too of course.
Another concern is who else in the house might ever handle, drop, knock over, or knock something into, a long gun with a chambered round?
I’ve always leaned toward keeping HD long guns unchambered and occasionally revisit the issue. I appreciate the input.
Same here.
I also carry it over to hunting. If I am moving, I don’t have a round chambered in a long gun, period.
Same goes for folks I take hunting. When we get ready to move to a new stand, the round WILL be removed from the chamber or you can get back in your truck and go home. I am not having you shoot me because you are clumsy.
A guy that went to school with me was killed while crossing a fence when I was in high school because the gun he had leaned against a tree while he crossed the fence fell over and discharged striking him in the femoral artery and he bled out before help could arrive.
I had a cousin that did the same.
My home defense AR is under the bed with a magazine but the chamber empty. It is much more likely that someone might pick it up and drop it than for it to be needed before I can get a round chambered.
IMHO that is an acceptable risk in a war zone but not in my house.
Not sure if it was the same class but Larry Vickers talked about one of his AK classes where a student on the firing line had a ND due to a G2 FCG installed in a Romanian AK. I have personally had my SAR-1 double fire on me at the range with a G2 installed.
All long guns are “cruiser safe” at all times.
All pistols are loaded at all times.
I read some posts on the internet several years ago that it’s unsafe to keep a round chambered in any gun with a free-floating firing pin (i.e. a firing pin with no spring behind it), if you plan to travel with that firearm in a vehicle. The reason is that the firing pin will move back and forth as the vehicle travels over bumpy terrain and theoretically you could have a slam-fire if the firing pin happens to strike the primer of the chambered round with enough force to bust it. Of course, if the firing pin has a spring that keeps it from moving, then there’s no problem.
So, you shouldn’t ride with an AR and a round in the chamber, but a Glock or 1911 would be fine.
If the spring is stiff enough to prevent movement then the hammer/striker wouldn’t touch it off either.
Primers need a certain minimum energy strike to detonate. If they pop too easily the lot should be condemned.
H
I would think the bigger issue would be the firing pin slowly creating a dead primer as has been shown to occasionally happen with rounds that have been repeatedly chambered but not fired.
Firearms that are out of my immediate control(in my hands, on a sling, or in a holster, don’t generally get a round in the chamber.
Drop safe and whatnot is kind of moot to me…the distance an AR has to drop to detonate a round is kind of ridiculous. As in if you store your firearm hanging out of your third story window balanced perfectly so that it lands with straight on the muzzle with the bore perpendicular to the ground, or have some “stupid shouldn’t ever put it in a defensive firearm” style trigger in it.
And then there is this. DocGKR, posted about a West coast SWAT team experiancing thid with TAP rounds.
Were you eating peanut butter when you typed this?
Damn my thick tongue strikes again . . . :lol:
I keep my G20 loaded round in the chamber in my night stand drawer, wife has a G19 loaded round in the chamber in her night stand. I keep and AR-15 “cruiser safe”, under my side of the bed, wife has an 870 “cruiser safe” under her side. I have kids, so the long guns go back in the safe every morning, the handguns we each carry, so they go with each of us.
I don’t see a problem with keeping a loaded AR & 870 with a round in the chamber as dangerous. I have kids at the house and they sometime have friends over, its just easier and safer to put the long guns in the safe, in a “cruiser safe” state.
The risk of a hunting rifle firing from being dropped, is not the same as a combat rifle. You would have to drop an ar on the muzzle hard enough to throw the fireing pin almost as fast as the hammer does… that’s a lot of force.
Hunting rifles are completely different - most have striker-type mechanisms that release when dropped-not a floating firepin slam-fire.
Same here
It is the same between a hunting and home defense shotgun. Which was more of what I was referring to.
However, the AR15 is still not drop safe the way modern handguns are. If the hammer is cocked, there is nothing to stop the firing pin from hitting the primer. If the hammer notch fails or is worn enough it could allow the hammer to fall.
Modern striker and hammer fired handguns have a block plus other redundant safeties that prevent the striker/firing pin from reaching the primer of a loaded round.