I currently hold a 01 dealer license and with July coming up I am contemplating getting an SOT. Now I have read through the NFA handbook once or twice and I haven’t seen any reference to a LE demo letter. I am just short of calling the NFA branch to ask, but thought I would ask here first. Does anyone know if this letter is required by the Manufacturors or by the BATFE?
You sound confused.
You have a 01 FFL which is a standard dealers license. To get a SOT, you need a Class 3 SOT (dealer) to go along with your dealer license. If you have this set up, demo letters are required for all post sample machineguns.
A manufacture 07 FFL gets a Class 2 SOT to manufacture NFA weapons. A Class 2 manufacture does not need a demo letter to buy or manufacture post sample machineguns.
scottryan:
Correct, I am a regular 01 license holder right now. If I plan on purchasing the class 3 SOT then I would like to do it as close to July 1st as possible because it is renewable every July 1st regardless of when it was purchased. My question in regards to the post 86 machine guns is this: Is the demo letter a requirement of the BATFE, and if so where can I find reference to it. From what I can tell it must be a requirment of the manufacturor because I can’t seem to find anything in the NFA Handbook (or anywhere else for that matter) in reqards to a LE letter.
I thought any SOT had to have a demo letter to get new select fires? Im still thinking about dropping the $500 for my SOT too. However, you can still get post samples with your SOT from other SOTs that are getting rid of them. Isnt a demo letter only needed for new weapond from the manufacturer? Plus the presamples are what Im looking at…
A class 3 SOT needs a demo letter for any post sample machinegun. It doesn’t matter where it is being bought from.
Not sure where to tell you to look for the section about demo letters. However, I can tell you how it has worked in my experience. Any Post 86 machine gun that you wish to purchase must have a demo letter, basically a letter on agency letterhead that requests you to obtain a certain type/model of machine gun for the purpose of a demonstration to that agency. You will submit a copy of the demo letter with the Form 3 or Form 5 to ATF.
The transfers that I have done with manufacturers have also submitted demo letters. They are however exempt from the demo letter requirement when it is a firearm that they make.
The SOT renewal forms came in early last week. You should be able to go ahead and fill it out and get in sent in. It is not required for you to wait till July 1 to submit.
Link to the SOT form http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5630-7.pdf you just fill in the year that you are applying for.
Davec,
Thanks for the link…I think I am going to call the NFA branch today and ask because now my curiosity is just killing me. I am going to send off my paperwork today for the SOT regardless, I was just curious as to who’s requirement it was for the LE letters to aquire dealer samples. I will let you guys know what they say.
Sorry I misunderstood in your previous post. The demo letters are required by ATF for the transfer of Post 86 machine guns.
So what if you get a demo letter fro a G36 or HK416 and buy it for your “demo” 
and then after youve had it a while and want to sell it to another SOT. Does that SOT have to have a letter from you? I didnt think so but its been a while…
I used to see post samples on subguns and sturmgewehr for SOT to SOT sales?
The SOT who buys it from you would need their own demo letter to be submitted with the transfer.
Manufacturers with SOT can also buy post 86 mgs out of dealers inventory that are going out of business without a demo letter.
Gottcha. I really need to pull the book out again…
I stillhave dreams of a pre sample MP5 in my gun safe…
For my own use of course…
You probably already know, but demo letters are not needed for presamples.
I’ve seen some really good deals on presample MP5s lately in the $6k range. They were $8k a couple years ago.
Good luck and enjoy.
You will find it in the CFR.
Here is the last Ruling I am aware of:
http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2002-5.html
Just an update,
I talked to Scott at the NFA branch today, and was told that the LE letter is required by BATFE along with the transfer paperwork for any post 86 sample regardless of where it was being transfered from. He was unaware of the specific ruling at the time, but said he will get back to me on it. This must not be too strictly enforced though, a close friend of mine is also a SOT dealer and he just recently transfered a post 86 MP5 sucessfully to another dealer with no LE letter. Has anyone else here done this or have any knowledge of it??
Wading into unknown waters here.
But, I would think that a Dealer can transfer a gun through himself (if he was say a distributor) to another dealer no problem, I believe it’s justification for holding onto the weapon.
Something a Dealer is transferring isn’t their asset, unless I’m mistaken, am I?
Just like say an SOT Dealer has two sample MP5’s lets say, and he demo’s them to a PD and they say “Wahoo we love them, we’ll take 15 of them.” he can transfer 15 of them from his distributor or the manufacturer to the police department in question, as I understand it…
I get the feeling though that with Post sample MG’s… there aren’t really distributors I would guess, because every SOT (unless they’re a manufacturer) needs an demo letter to take possession of a Post Sample and put it in their inventory… A demo letter for 100 MP5’s to keep on hand and sell to other FFL’s so they can sell to LE departments sounds impossible, as it isn’t a demo, so…
Something sounds fishy.
Most dealers in MG’s probably only operate under the umbrella of keeping samples for a major sale to LE, and then the transfer to the LE department.
Maybe I’m incorrect.
I would find it in writing. ATF agents tend to have different answeres depending on what day of the week it is…
I know a dealer who has a couple of pre 86 MP5’s. If you are interested let me know and I will see what he wants for them.
Renegade,
thanks for the link…I know that nearly every post dealer sample I have researched so far has asked for a LE letter. That is a little disapointing cause I am sure a LE letter isn’t the easiest thing to come by.
All FFL holders with an SOT need to have a demo letter to receive a post sample. You cannot gat say an MP5 and the following year try to get another. It will be denied because you already have one.
You cannot get a Demo letter from a Department for a weapon that they already have, example; Demo letter for an MP5 If the department giving you a Demo letter has one your transfer will be denied because they don’t need to see another. Sometimes they (NFA) will over look this, but not always.
To get Demo letters from Departments is not as easy as you think, you really need to get to know them and get in good with them. Try to get in with the training officers.
Demo letters need to be very specific as to the model, if you get a letter that states a model HK G36 they usually will not let it work for a G36K or G36C the letter would have to say G36K or G36C
Here is a very good format for a Demo letter:
(written on agency letterhead)
Joe Dealer
123 Main St.
Anytown, US 12345
Dear Mr. Dealer,
The City of Anytown Police Department requests a demonstration of the following full-automatic weapons for purposes of test and evaluation only:
A. Colt M1A2 and M4A3
B. Bushmaster XM15E2S
C. Israel Military Industries UZI, Mini UZI, and Micro UZI
D. Heckler & Koch MP5A2, MP5A3, MP5SD2, MP5SD3, MP5-K, G36E, G36C,
G36K, UMP 40, UMP 45, and UMP 9
E. Glock 18
This is a request for demonstration only, not a request for purchase. The City of Anytown Police Department is not obligated to purchase any of these weapons. Please ensure these weapons are available in a timely manner. If you have any questions please call me at (123) 456-7890.
Sincerely,
John Smith
Chief of Police
Good info here. Whenever getting a demo sample, it’s always best to specify the unique and detailed extended model name and part number. Especially helpful if the dealer wants a second sample of something in the same line.