Ever since the special edition LAV Daniel Defense M4 came out I have been intrigued by the aluminum magazine pictured in the rifle, as well as Vickers using them it in his Carbine Course videos.
With the shift in the past couple of years the use of pmags, is there any particulular reason that the LAV is still using aluminum mags? Personal preference? Easier to insert/drop in the magazine well? Or does anybody know?
I do know that while I love pmags, I often run aluminum mags still in my DD carbine due to some of my pmags being to tight in the mag well, along with my laziness to file them to fit.
In his new DVD he recommends black PMAGs as well as aluminum magazines with the proper follower. I imagine that is due to some reported durability issues with other color PMAGs.
This echoes what was said in his carbine class back in Nov. Quality usgi or black pmags. Mentioned an incident of a cracked fde but didn’t seem anti pmag as long as they dropped free from your individual lower.
For that particular rifle it came down to color matching and durability, particularly in regard to the durability/reliability of FDE Pmags. The reliability of GI mags is a given. I was told to avoid any but the black Pmags.
The Vickers rifle originally came with three Brownells mags, but Brownells discontinued them and, if I’m not mistaken, they now ship with one mag from Bravo Company.
During his combat service, Larry had to carry his magazines and ammunition over long distances by foot. Since the aluminum magazine is significantly lighter weight than the pmag, this might have something to do with it.
USGI aluminum mags have a shitty rep because the military frequently keeps them in service well past their lifespan and fail to realize they’re a disposable item that wears out. Okay brand USGI mag with a Magpul followers run extremely well and are all I use for training and wouldn’t hesitate to use them for SHTF use either.
I had LAV for an instructor in a course before I retired and he was using PMAGs. LAV seems to shoot and carry whatever is interesting to him at the time.
I posted my first reply late last night, so I’ll expand a bit.
I took one of his classes last week and someone had one of the Vickers rifles there. He spoke specifically about color matching issues.
I was also in the class Icculus mentions, where LAV questioned the reliability of any but the black Pmags and the fact that quality GI mags offer proven reliability.
The Brownells mags matched better and were more reliable than FDE Pmags, so the Vickers rifle came with the Brownells mags until they were discontinued, and—if I remember correctly—they now come with FDE D&H mags sourced from Bravo Company.
USGI mags are exactly 3/4 oz lighter than a PMAG. When loaded, that is a very small percentage. (With a Magpul follower it’s even less.)
Let’s not forget Larry was recommending HK mags at over twice the weight of a USGI mag empty. That’s a huge difference and he had no problem recommending those for years (well after his combat service).
Unless you heard that from Larry directly, logic tells me it has little to do with what you posted. This is not a slam on you at all. Just trying to keep speculation out of it.
I think it was in some thread of arfcom like a year ago, but it was revealed that coloring the polymer in PMags anything but black reduced the structural integrity of the polymer, even if only in theory. Operating the colored PMags in extreme temperatures (e.g. war zones in the Middle East) exacerbated the issue and they could crack during usage. Reportedly (not sure if it’s true), this is one of the reasons that clear PMags never made it to full production.
Anyways, as far as it being an issue in the FDE/OD/Foliage colors, it was deemed that those colors either didn’t pose enough of a risk or that it wasn’t measurable enough - the exact reason of, I’m not sure. However, any color but black will theoretically have a weaker structure. The choice for black PMags was presumably for reliability and integrity of the magazine.
Longevity under working conditions and durability. Buy USGI and pay for replacements later or buy PMags at double the cost and don’t worry about needing others. It works out about even in the end, so it would make sense for most just to opt for PMags.
Why not get the best of both worlds and order DSG’s teflon mags with Magpul followers for 9 bucks pop. Pmags cant assist in clearing cases jammed above the BCG like a metal mag can…not that there is only one way to do that of course.
For me personally, I’d prefer to have a single, over-engineered piece of equipment than two of something that meets bare minimum quality, especially when it’s already considered a semi-disposable item (i.e. it’s expected to break and be non-serviceable at some point in time). Equipment tends to fail at the very second you need it not to - don’t ask how I was just reminded of that.
The other thing is that during reloads with USGI mags, the aluminum on aluminum contact from the mags and the magwell wears away the anodizing and the metal itself (from both the lower receiver and the magazines). If you’re issued a working gun, this isn’t even worth thinking about, but for my own guns, I want them to last as long as possible, especially if there was ever another AWB or magazine ban. PMags simply reduce another point of failure in the system for me.
Okay, I am going to ask another newbie question, but this one is based on years of injection mold experience. In normal circumstances the difference between products made in the same mold but of different color is the color additive and not a difference in the actual polymer. How does the change in colorant affect durability? I’m at a bit of a loss.
The clear magazines are a polycarbonate. Not even similar to the Thermoset polymer the colored P-Mags are made from.
I suspect it has more to do with material flow in the molds for certain lots of the tan P-Mags than any strutcural issue. I suspect the tan polymer cools faster than the darker colorations and does not allow as even a flow in the mold. You may be getting less fiberglass in the polymer at the feed-lip end of the mold.
