Kahr pistols and reliability issues for small 9mm backup guns

General Firearms Handguns - Semi Auto
1

I just bought a Ruger LCP as a backup gun, and it’s doing ok, but I’d really rather have a 9mm for a BUG. I do have a S&W M&P 9 compact, and test-fired a Glock 26 recently, but even those are a bit larger/bulkier than I really want in a backup gun. The small Kahr pistols are perfect size-wize, but obviously they’ll only work as a BUG if they’re reliable.

That seems to be a big “if”. I’ve heard rather mixed reports about the reliability of the small Kahr 9mm’s: the P9, PM9, MK9, etc.

So I’d like to hear from users on this forum: Are the small Kahr 9mm pistols reliable enough for use as a backup gun?

As a follow-up question, if you think the Kahr is unreliable, then is there any small 9mm pistol that you think would work for backup purposes? As for Rohrbaugh, I’ve seen reviews indicating that it has as many issues with reliability as the Kahrs, besides the fact that it costs nearly 2x higher! Kel-tecs have been even worse for reliability, from what I’ve read. It doesn’t seem like there are a lot of good choices in this space (which I suppose is why I and many others have gone to the .380, while other folks have gone to a revolver in .38 sp).

2

I had a Kahr PM9 that had lots of issues at first. It got much better after a couple hundred rounds, but I never regained confidence in it enough to carry it.

I now have a Walther PPS 9mm that has been perfect through 300-400 rounds. I am very happy with the gun. The only thing stopping me from carrying it has been a lack of holsters, but I just noticed that Comp Tac is making holsters for it now. If only Raven would make them for the PPS now…

3

My only experience with them has been with the 45 variant.

Based on that I would suggest you strongly avoid the 45 version.

4

I could probably look this up, but anyway, have you compared the Walther to the compact Glock and M&P? Is it somewhat smaller/thinner? Have to confess that I’ve never even fired a Walther.

5

The Walther’s I have seen all had lousy triggers. Very gritty. Additionally, the magzines are a bit strange with the entension on the rear, making them a bit awkward to carry.

As for the Kahr’s, we’ve had two, so my sample size is too small to be statistically significant. However, we just traded off the last one last week for an M&P 9c. No, the M&P does not replace the Kahr, but it will work better for my uses – in appendix carry.

The Kahr was reliable after less than two hundred rounds, but we had several magazine issues that always made me a bit leery. Kahr replaced the first mag, but every so often they just do something strange. The edges on the mag lips are pretty sharp too, though this is not a show stopper.

The biggest problem we had with the PM 9 was the mag release button. It did not have the tension found in the all steel models. In pocket carry mode it was quite easy to put enough pressure on it to release it in your pocket. It was the lightest magazine release I’ve ever experienced. I heard recently that Kahr had a replacement part with a stronger spring and I tried calling them, but could never get through. I finally left a message and their system said I’d get a call within 48 hours. I never got the call and at that point used it as trade toward the M&P and extra mags for our other M&P’s.

An aquaintance of mine had to replace his slide stop several times and I had decided to get a couple when I ordered the mag release just to have on hand, but in the end, all of these little things added up to a complete lack of confidence in it. I won’t be buying another.

I think the Kahr is a nifty design that is poorly executed. I also think they are grossly overpriced.

I don’t see anything out there to replace my old 640 Centennial at the moment. I did an action job on several new J- and L- frames of late and I’m not impressed with the quality of the internal parts Smith is using these days. As of now, I will just look for an older 642 or 442 to use for pocket carry, and the M&P c works better for appendix carry than my 640. It is certainly easier to master.

6

Probably a good observation. It’s interesting that my Dad, some time ago, also wanted to get a small and reliable carry gun. Ultimately he bought a Kahr (I think it was a PM9 or an MK9) through Bill Laughridge at Cylinder & Slide. Bill told him what you said, that the Kahr was a nice design, but thought it needed some tuning to be made more reliable. Anyway, Dad’s Kahr is stone-cold reliable and accurate, nice trigger, and the slide operates smooth as glass. Downside? It cost $1100 including the C&S tuneup package (which included a slide “melt” to remove sharp edges, trigger and action tuning, and other steps to improve reliability, custom adjustment of mags, etc). Nice gun, but $$$!

As you have done, I suspect I’ll probably just learn to live with my M&P 9c, and/or keep using my little LCP. Imperfect as the .380 is, I feel better armed with it than just carrying my Benchmade folder!

7

I have a PM9. It has been reliable after the 200 round break in period. For me it is easier to carry on the ankle and to shoot than my 642. It seems with Kahr that you either get a good one or you don’t. I had an Covert 40 about 8 years ago that had issues with ejection. I sent it back and Kahr was very responsive. Opened and flared ejection port and tuned or replaced extractor.

8

I’ve got one PM9. Bought it in Sep 2005.

Had numerous failures to return to battery (FTRB) when it was new. All shooting was with Win White Box 115 grain FMJ. There were about 25-35 of these FTRB in the first 225 rds. Then rds 231-511 included about 7 FTRB. Rds 512-787 were perfect. Then I had 2 more FTRB in rds 788-877. I called Kahr, and spoke to a CS rep who recommended a new recoil spring assembly.

I installed a new recoil spring assembly after rd 877. I now have 1748 rds through the gun, with 871 rds on the current recoil spring assembly. I’ve had one FTRB in that 871 rds. Of that 871, 206 were Fed 147 grain HST (P9HST2) and the rest were Win White Box 115 FMJ.

I’ve kept the gun moderately to heavily lubed with FP10, have used several different mags, and cleaned the gun after each range session.

Haven’t had a problem with the magazine releasing inadvertently. I carry it in a DeSantis Nemesis in a pocket or fanny pack.

It is reliable enough for me to carry it as a backup to a larger gun, or as a primary gun when I take my morning walk around my neighborhood.

One thing that is an irritant ( minor IMHO) is that the instruction manual advises using the slide stop/release lever to release the slide as opposed to grasping, pulling, and releasing the back of the slide (sometimes called “slingshotting”). I tried it both ways, and surely enough got a couple of failure to feed stoppages (nose downward) early on when I tried the slingshot method of releasing the slide. Have trained myself to only release using the slide stop/release with this gun.

It’s small, light, flat, fits in and comes out of a pocket easily, is easier to shoot fast and accurately than my S&W 642, holds two more rds than the 642, and lets me know when it’s empty.

Somewhere IIRC I read on the errornet that the PM9 is a 6000 rd gun. I don’t know if that’s true. I’m not sure what it would mean even if true. I don’t know if it means the guns only last 6000 rds ON AVERAGE, or 95% of them last at least 6000 rds, if Kahr expects them to be economically unrepairable after 6000 rds, or something else.

9

Some of the PM9s have had problems, and internet forums seem to magnify the probs and give it a bad reputation.
The MK9 seem to be flawless from every review Ive seen, but they are heavier and more expensive.

I carry my PM9 everyday as a primary. I do carry a reload also. If I do my part in keeping the gun lubed and seat the mags completely the gun runs very well. The only other probs Ive had is slide lock failures when it gets dry and dirty after 250-300rds of FMJ. Sometimes it wont lock back after the last round. Clean and lube it and it goes back to good running condition.
As for slingshotting the PM9, its sorta hit or miss. If you baby the slide, its gonna hang most of the time. If you really rip the slide and let your hand slap your chest it should go. But using the slide release isnt that hard, and Im left handed.

I dont know about the 6K round thing?? I know of one guy on THR that has over 17K rds through his PM9 and the only things he’s changed is the recoil spring. The Kahrs are very tight guns and should run longer than 6K rds. Im only at 1K, but dont see it stopping anytime soon.

10

Despite the price, I think the Rohrbaugh is the way to go in a 9mm pocket pistol. Like any other gun, especially for its size, I would fire plenty of your preferred self defense round to check for reliability. A pocket pistol simply is a compromise weapon in more ways than one. I carry Black Hills 115 EXP JHP in mine. Chrono’s at 1120 fps, quite remarkable for a standard pressure load out of 2.9" bbl. Bucks like a mule, too, but is controllable and always have 7 rounds on tap ready to go.

Tim

11

I’ve only had the P-40 and the MK 9. Both were flawless AFTER break-in. The P-40 has been my daily carry gun(most of the time) for about seven years. For me, nothing this potent carries AND shoots as well as the Kahrs in general and my P-40 in particular. As you have read here, learn a couple of the Kahr “quirks” and they will probably serve you well.
BTW, Kahr service, for me, was outstanding. I haven’t had to use them for a long time, but when I did, I was impressed.

Skip

12

I own the PM45. First couple hundred rounds had several FTF, or the spent shell would jam when the slide returned (shooting the white box). Watched about ten minutes of TV that night and just cycled the slide by hand. Seemed to do ALOT better. Still does not like the white box much, does better on blazer, shoots +P ammo with no issues. My uncle has the PM9 same issues… White box=bad, almost any +P ammo=good. I’ve shot Mag-tech, Winchester self defense(wal-mart), Black Talons, Horandy TAP, and surplus SWC. All the +P shoots fine…

13

I hhad two 9mm polymer Kahrs, compact and subcompact. Both worked. I never got used to stoppages occurring when loading the first round from a mag. I traded them.

14

I recently purchased a PM9. Here is my break-in experience.
Total round count 346
Round #
119 Fail to Feed 2nd round in mag Fiocchi 124 FMJ
185 Slide fail to lock back on last round
190 Slide fail to lock back on last round
256 Slide fail to lock back on last round
274 Slide fail to lock back on last round
284 Fail to Feed 2nd round in mag Federal Hydra Shok
290 Slide fail to lock back on last round

The fail to feed seems to have worked itself out. The last 45 rounds of Hydra Shok have been problen free.

I have identified the slide lock back problem as a faulty magazine follower. I called Kahr customer service. We finally came to a satisfactory solution. They wanted the pistol back (at my expense) where as, I wanted to try some new followers. They insisted on getting the faulty part back before they would ship out a new one. Not what I used hey hey, not everyone can live up to the Wilson, LaRue, and others (well known on this site) standards.

I put another 290 rounds through the pistol. 100 PMC FMJ, 100 Remington UMC FMJ, 50 American Eagle FMJ and 40 Hydra Shok with no issues. I am impressed with the accuracy of this little pistol. I did get the new magazine and the follower is a different design.

15

I’ve owned four. I had a standard blued K9, a stainless K40 Elite 98, a stainless K9, and a polymer P9. None of them remotely approached a comfortable level of reliability, even after expending well over the recommended break-in rounds.

I kept going back to the Kahr, though, because I really liked it’s size and accuracy. But …

16

The Rohrbaugh R9s Pistols are awesome BUG, though they are very pricey. I’m big on having 9mm as a minimum in a CC and they fit that role very well. To save some money you might check the Kahr MK9. Happy Pickings.

17

The Walther is about the same size as a Glock 26, but thinner. It has 6, 7 and 8 round magazines that change the length of the grip. The magazines are very expensive. It does have a HK type mag release, but I like that for a CCW type gun. The trigger on my gun is good and I would compare it to an M&P trigger.

18

Morning. I have been carrying a S&W J-frame for about 12 yrs now as a back up. I have been happy. I have tried other models but I always come back to the J.

I have had two Kel Tecs, The 32 acp and 380. Lightweight and they carry easy on my body armor, in the chest plate/pocket. Problem is I shoot them a lot, figure if I am going to carry I need to shoot it. Well they don’t hold up to a lot of shooting. Both crapped out, fail to extract empties, fail to eject, fail to feed.

The Rhorbaugh’s (spelln?) from what I have heard and been told are great, though pricey. But they fall in the same area as Kel Tecs, not meant for a lot of shooting.

A couple of people at work have gone the Khar route, seems they either like then or hate them. The polymer frames have been known to crack with a lot of shooting. The 9 is easier to control than 40.

I may be outdated here, but I feel my S&W mod 042 with Nyclad’s serves me well. Yes its only 5 rds, but it is 5 for sure and if I have to pull it, well its probably a bad situation already.

Good luck with your search.

19

I have a Kahr P9 that I carry off duty, plain clothes assignements, and formerly as a back up. Now I carry a G27 as I am issued a G22. I had a couple of minor hiccups during the break in period, fail to ejects. After the 200 round break in period it has been perfect. I have shot everything through it from cheap to duty ammo and it runs great. I have tried limp wristing it, shooting it upsidown, and it works well, I trust it.

Kahr recommends the break in period as they say their tolerances are so tight. I don’t know how tight they really are as I have a Sig P226 that has tight tolerances and didn’t need any break in period, although I had a Sig P220 that was a POS.

I guess what it comes down to is there are lemons from every maker. While some say Kahr as a lot more than other manufacturers. A few of us on my department own Kahrs as well as members of my family, all of us have had total reliability after the break in period. Just like anything maintenance and proper lube for a fighting pistol. I have also found their customer service to be very good, if not the best I have seen in a while. A friend had a Kahr that was reliable but it just didn’t seem to be that accurate. It would should 5" groups at 25 yards versus mine can shoot 2" groups at that range on the rest. He sent it back and while they acknowledged the problem that didn’t know what it exactly was. They replaced the barrel and slide and upgraded to night sights and no cost for the trouble of having to send it in. I can’t guarantee they do this for everyone but I was impressed.

I think they are over priced especially when compared to a Glock. If you work in LE they do have an LE discount program and for a while a range demo model LE discount program. The discount helps a little but it is not as big of a discount as Glock. If you can carry a Glock as a back up that is my first choice as I have carried full size Glocks as duty guns. If you are worried about thickness I can easily conceal a G30, which I did for a long time while I carried a G21.

Get what you think you would be comfortable with and confident with. Also think about where you are going to carry your back up gun. Ankle, pocket, holster etc? If you do ankle, it could get dirty, what if you step in snow, mud, water, etc? Can you get it out with your reaction hand? Can you get it out while moving? Things to think about.

Good luck, hope I help a litle more than confused you.

Take care,
Dave

20

I had a P9 for a while

It was great for malfunction drills, as I could not get a whole mag through it-ever

I tried every brand/bullet weight possible and it just would not function reliably

For perspective, I have never had this problem with any other handgun-period

After several trips back and forth, Kahr replaced it with an MK9 that I sold because it was not really what I wanted in the first place.

Except that it worked…that was nice

My own humble opinion based on my experience and my limited research is that their steel guns work great, but the polymer guns can be problematic, especially when they first hit the market

Service was hit/miss depending on who I talked to. I had people promise to call me back and never do so, and I had people that were really great

Maybe they wer just busy with returns:D