KAC SR25 ACC vs. LaRue PredatOBR

AR/M4 Beyond 5.56/.223
1

Hi guys,

Within the next year or so, I plan on getting into the .308 AR game. I’ll be looking at using the rifles for 500-1000m, but I’m also looking to keep the overall rifle weight and size as minimal as possible without compromising longevity or performance – a “scout” rifle of sorts that will be a good compromise of long range ability and mobility. A 16" rifle looks to fit the bill, specifically the KAC SR25 ACC or LaRue PredatOBR. However, despite doing all the reading I can on these, I can’t seem to find the answers I want to help me make the decision.

To start, here’s my list of criteria (listed by importance):

[ol]
[li]Mobile (light-to-moderate weight, 16" barrel)[/li][li]Reliability (if it’s not good in dirty conditions or is picky with ammo, I don’t want it)[/li][li]Accuracy (1.5 MOA or below with proper ammo)[/li][li]Longevity (quality parts that will go beyond 10,000 rounds without replacement are important to me)[/li][li]Suppressor capable (I’ll likely run this rifle 80%+ suppressed)[/li][/ol]

Finding how each performs in the above categories is really tough, especially with LaRue fanboys populating TOS. It makes cutting through the crap difficult.

What attracts me to the KAC is that it’s a proven system built by a proven company and will likely have support for years to come even if there were some sort of ban. I’ve also read great things about SR25 parts life, as like I said above, I’m looking to get 10,000+ rounds out of this rifle without replacing parts (if that’s even reasonable). What worries me about the SR25, however, is it lacks an adjustable gas block, and I don’t want to blow out my components from overgassing them all the time.

What attracts me to the LaRue is that it’s obviously accurate, but also because it’s got an adjustable gas block for suppressor use. What skeevs me about the LaRue, however, is that the parts aren’t of a convincing quality to me. Rumors abound that their bolts aren’t HP tested/MPI, and who knows what they use for their lower parts kits outside of the triggers. I’ve also read a few comments that they can be ammo finicky. This makes me question the reliability of the gun and longevity of the parts.

Can anyone help me evaluate these items? How is the KAC with a majority-suppressed firing schedule? Can I expect a 10,000+ round lifespan out of the bolt and barrel with a light firing schedule (I don’t see myself ever shooting rapidly) with the obvious caveat that nothing is a guarantee? How is LaRue’s parts quality? How do PredatOBRs perform over the long haul and in rough conditions? Does either rifle have issues with being picky with ammo or choking on dust/dirt?

Much appreciated for any help you guys can provide. F2S, I understand you’re coming from a KAC employee’s perspective and have to tread lightly when talking in threads about other company’s rifles, but I’d still be really interested in your perspective.

Thanks guys!

P.S.: the price difference between the rifles doesn’t mean anything on my end.

2

First: LaRue makes a nice, precision oriented rifle.

Now, onto KAC:
The rifles are tuned to run suppressed and unsuppressed, clean or fouled, pristine or covered in mud.

10,000 rounds will be less than half of the life of the ACC, even if you treat it like a heavy carbine.

If you want a generally more precise, but lower barrel lifespan, the APC is good. A few with chrome lined barrels were sent out earlier this year, but current production is non-chrome lined. The barrel should last past 10k, but that will be heavily dependant on firing schedule and maintenance cycle.

From Tapatalk:
Jack Leuba
Knight’s Armament Company: Military/Govt Product Liaison
F2S Consulting: Director of Shooting Stuff

3

Thanks Jack. That’s exactly the stuff I was looking for. Is it reasonable to expect <1.5MOA using the proper ammo (something like FGMM) in an ACC? I’ll also think about the APC in reference to my accuracy needs/ammo capabilities. That’s an impressive lifespan in its own right.

4

1.5 is a reasonable expectation.
The average of what I have seen is below that. Naturally, there is a bell curve associated with precision.

5

well…

just reading over the criteria you listed, I would recommend you go with the ACC, reliability and longevity, knights has a metric ton worth of quantifiable data from outside sources to guide the development of its rifles.

there have been profound improvements from the sr25, to the Mk11, to the M110 to todays current lineup. these changes came directly from feedback and data acquired in fielding and testing. this is something that not many rifle manufactures have access to, this is also something that LT has long avoided. the LT reputation was earned through a genius marketing campaign that combined bottle openers, BBQ rub, and DVD. in spite of having no real presence in competitive shooting or being fielded by a military, ARFCOM is awestruck.

in terms of accuracy, it all comes down to a few basic things,
barrel profile
barrel material
trigger

a heavier SS barrel will mostly always outperform a lighter non SS barrel regardless of manufacture

6

There are a bunch of Larue pop-up targets collecting rust in a shed at FLETC. Somebody buys their stuff.

7

SR25 all the way, do not even consider the other stuff.

8

I wholeheartedly agree with this. KAC engineering and design continually makes quantifiable improvements to their SR25s. And in the off chance you do get a rifle that is not up to their standards, I’ve witnessed first hand the great CS you will get from them.

In our recent class that F2S taught, there was an OBR that just came back from LaRue with their “match” barrel installed. The gun would not run out of the box with M118LR.

9

Sorry for the thread drift, but any particular reason you’re not considering the SCAR 17S? Genuinely curious, as I’ve been wrestling with what lightweight 7.62 to get myself, before the election hits next year. The SCAR 17S and the KAC ACC are my primary contenders right now, and F2S’s statements about the suppressor usage on the ACC do much to swing the favor further toward the ACC, as I currently already have a 7.62 SOCOM.

10

SCAR 17s is a great rifle, lots of versatility and applications, FN makes a great gun.

Even still, if they could fix that pesky issue with the way the 17s destroys optics, that would be nice.

11

SR25 ECC owner here.

No real reason to buy any other 7.62 semi auto rifle unless you a) are trying to save money or b) just want another brand name.

I have never seen a Larue rifle in real life. Everytime I semi looked at the website; it seemed unobtainable. To be fair from money down to getting my KAC was a year and a half but it was worth it. I went through Lawmen’s.

The rifle is light, ambi, and very accurate. Waiting on a MAMS. That is the best upgrade you can make to your rifle.

I don’t know if KAC will rebarrel once you hit 20k rounds of 7.62 but that is still a long ways off for me. And for most people. It eats Federal M80 with acceptable accuracy. Definitely moreso than an HK91. Mine likes 175 SMK most but wooo…that’s what I call investment shooting.

Working part time and selling off stuff in anticipation of the ACC which interests me more than the APC.

It is a tad puerile and unscientific but to me the Larue is like an iPod. Marketed toward the suburban hipster set. Brand name…a few goodies. Make you feel like you are part of a “club”.

KAC is like the HiFiMan or maybe Sony Walkman but more HiFiMan. You get it because you like shooting/music, you want the best you can get, and while the price is very very…potentially marriage ending, skip lunch for a few months, cancel cable high…

It is worth it. I know years ago…like a long time ago when I bought a rail from larue (that I don’t use anymore) they had a video packed in of two SF types winning the Ft. Benning Sniper Competition with a Larue but…I think those guys probably would have won anyways.

Good luck in your selection. Because a high end 7.62 rifle is definitely a measure twice, cut once purchase.

12

Thanks for all the input, everyone. It helped A LOT in figuring out how each rifle meets my needs. With reliability being the most important concern of mine outside of the weight/size, the SR25s are the match for my needs. Now I’ll just need to decide on APC or ACC. :slight_smile:

You all were a tremendous help. Thanks again!

P.S.: SCAR-17s weren’t on my list because I don’t like their use of proprietary magazines, how they have a reputation for decreasing optic life, and their precision numbers aren’t what I need from everything I’ve read on them. I also don’t trust the product’s lifespan as a matter of how long it will be around/supported, whereas the SR25 has been around for a long time and I’m confident will continue to be.

13

OP, any reason why you’re ruling out the LMT MWS? I would classify it more as “moderate” in weight, but the barrel swap is simple enough if you’re going to shoot it out. And it shares a lot of the same DNA as the SR25. It certainly fits the criteria of being a minute and a half shooters gun, and not a finicky boutique rifle that comes with Bar-B-Q duck sauce.

BTW, I’m a so-called “KAC fan boy” if that matters.

14

out of all the 308 AR’s out there today,i really like KAC,LMT, JP, and surprisingly the DPMS G2.

if you would lay a SR25 ACC and LMT SL8MWS on a table and ask me to pick one, of course it would be the ACC as its just more refined than the SL8MWS, that’s not to say that the LMT is any less reliable, durable or accurate, just that KAC guns go a step further than LMT at a fairly substantial premium.

that premium plus the ability to have both a lightweight 308 barrel and long range 260 barrel are far more valuable to me than, say a MAM’s and a dimpled barrel.

15

There’s also the issue of LMT supposedly coming out with a lightweight barrel, using a lighter contour and an aluminium barrel extension in lieu of the steel one (was seen at SHOT 2015). Not sure how much weight it saves, supposedly about 0.75 lbs., but that’s all conjecture, and there’s no known release date.

16

I would say that LMT is the nearest competitor to us (KAC) in regard to a proven AR-based .308 that can do a wide variety of tasks.
I naturally have a bias toward the ACC and APC over pretty much everything else, but there are interesting developments from a few companies.

17

I considered the MWS, but at 1.5 lbs over the ACC (and .6-.7 over the APC), I decided to pass. This combined with the monolithic upper really turned me off, as I appreciate a modular system more.

Really, the only reason LaRue was in the equation was the adjustable gas block, but with them still seeming to have teething issues from recent reports, a PredatOBR is out of the question again. I was 80% ACC from the beginning, and this thread helped me figure out that last bit.

18

Not to hijack this thread but…

Now that you’re thinking seriously about the SR25 ACC perhaps Jack (or a designated Jack) can provide an expert’s recommendations on the best process for “breaking in” a brand new SR25 ACC (short of just go out and shoot the snot out of it).

I ask, for purely selfish reasons, as I had my dealer order me one several months ago and the last delivery update he gave me was it looked like end of Q1 it would likely roll off the production line. I’m hoping he meant Q1 2015. :slight_smile:

For some reason, it feels like this wait has been more painful than my NFA wait times in the past (and this isn’t even an NFA item). I’ve got a SOCOM 7.62 RC just waiting to get some exercise with this baby.

19

Actually, that’s a question.

IF I actually get to 20k rounds…could I pay KAC to rebarrel my rifle?

And yeah…I can attest to the grueling wait times. Worth it but there were a few times in that year and a half I didn’t see the light at the end of the tunnel. But once it came…oh boy.
I now feel like I can do NFA standing on my head.

20

Most people issued the three KAC guns you listed view the quality scale to slide in the opposite direction you have listed.

Plenty of LT rifles have shown superior accuracy (WAY) beyond the 10k CYA number that LT lists.

LT guns have been and are used in various places including high level comps. LT guns are also used VERY extensively at some of the most highly regarded long range shooting institutions.

There are very many LT guns that get fed nothing but 118LR.

I have never seen a KAC gun outshoot a LT gun, period.

I don’t know anyone issued a KAC gun that doesn’t bitch about it.

LT doesn’t make a perfect rifle, but KAC rifles generally don’t live up to the expectations of the people they are supposedly meant to arm. They do generally make people feel awesome on the internet about spending way too much money on a gun.

If I wanted a non-sniper rifle that was decently accurate I would go for the LMT, especially since 260 barrels are an option.