Except of course when it puts innocent people at risk for severe injury or death. The shooting of Sam Weaver for example was hardly a “civil” matter.
Cops do bad things some times and make mistakes but the time to settle that is in court not on the street. Its a lose lose for you no matter what if you try to fight it on the street even if your 100% right. You are likely to get hurt, possibly killed and charged etc. If they screwed up hire an attorney, tell the ACLU, let your politician know etc.
Pat
My opinion is that the wise man will not resist arrest. The cop gone mad scenario is atypical and extremely rare. Resisting arrest opens a giant can of worms in 99.9% of cases.
Cops, like teachers or jailers, have a thankless job. Dealing with assholes on a daily basis is stressful. Enduring bullshit from supervisors is stressful. Public servants might expect the regular guy on the street to display good attitudes, but no, a large number bitch like hell if cited for an obvious violation. Stress is cumulative.
Attitude is everything. Kiss ass? No. You can always keep your mouth shut and avoid displaying negative body language. The cop who pulls you over may have earlier dealt with an aids infested crackhead who spit in his face. If you go to jail, your jailer may have been kicked, spit on, or pissed on before you got there. Enuff said.
This is my thought as well. Illegal or not, I’d feel bad if an officer was injured while making what he thought at the time was a lawful arrest.
Excessive force might be a different matter, depending on the circumstance. Especially if it appears to be excessive force with malice aforethought. Rare, but it happens. 
We could “what if” that scenario all day.
Maybe, maybe not. If the circumstances are egregious enough, court might need to be held right there on the street. Personally, if I think I’m going to be hurt during an unlawful arrest, it’s a pretty solid bet that I’m not going to allow that to take place.
Crazy situation, things happen, glad it ended up okay in the end.
No argument there, I was just providing an example.
Here in Alabama…we actually have the RIGHT…literally…to not only
resist arrest, but to make arrests as as citizens, EVEN COPS.
So, as Ive understood it, and been told by people well versed in this AL law, WE, THE PEOPLE, can actually arrest a cop for an illegal arrest.
Case in point: Open, unlicensed carry has ALWAYS been 100% legal in AL, period. At no point in time was it ever illegal. But for decades, people were still getting arrested for it all over the state, and a huge majority of cops were flat out told by superiors it was illegal. I personally know a gent of about 70, who was in a Subway about 3 or so months ago, was asked to come outside, and arrested for open carry w/o license. He was released 6 hours later. However, as he said, and as another expert told me, he COULD HAVE arrested that detective for illegal arrest. Now, we all know the potentials of that situation. BUT, under Bama law, the arrest of the detective would have been 100% legal, where as his arrest, with subsequent apology & charges dropped, was not.
NOW, with our Gov just signing SB286 into law, effective 1AUG, it has been re-affirmed OC is legal, and copps are STILL telling folks it isn’t. Point of my post: MANY cops ignore, don’t know, don’t care about some laws, and do things knowing most people will just roll over and take it.
And they are right, about that anyway.
If it makes you feel better I was responsible for a department wide procedure review after an encounter with a younger deputy. He was in error about a few things, but positive he was correct and he did some things that made our encounter more dangerous than it needed to be.
Rather than try and “be right” or “prove him wrong” I simply did what was necessary for him to be satisfied with the situation and on my way. The next day I spoke to the shift sergeant, explained everything that happened and where the deputy was in error regarding certain FL statutes and some of the dangerous things he did during our encounter.
I also explained that I wasn’t trying to get anybody fired, wasn’t interested in seeking compensation or even forcing somebody to apologize and that I only cared about making sure the deputy in question correctly understood and enforced the statutes in question.
And I’m sure he does, as well as everyone else he works with, and that means when the next guy deals with the deputies from that agency they won’t be trying to enforce non existent laws and regulations. I also probably now have an asterisk next to my name when they run my license.
:laugh:
We have a senior patrol Sgt. on administrative suspension pending investigation for excessive use of force, intimidation of witness, and violation of 4th A. on several occasions. He is a 26yr veteran and the skeletons are coming out. Every arrest he has made is now under scrutiny. People are literally rushing to IA with complaints on this guy going back 20+ years.
I have had interactions with him on occasion. He is without a doubt the epitome of a bad cop. Why has he been allowed to continue his behavior for so long? Administration allowing it, lack of accountability, and the public not speaking up. As an officer I understand there is a fine line. Some of you have said the citizens should give the cop a break, he may be coming off a bad call. I call bullshit, we are sworn and held to a higher standard. We can’t not be professional at all times. So as a citizen I say f@$k the bad cop and assert your rights. Of course be prepared to go all in. There is no halfway in this scenario.
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The more cooperative you are the less force that can justified in being used and the bigger your settlment will be and the cops themselves would be looking at more serious charges against themselves. Escalating the events however will end up with you losing on the street. You may beat the individual officer you start out dealing with but your not going to beat the back up when it arrives. Of course there are no absolutes and I am speaking in general terms.
Pat
You should about the recent case of what Pomona PD officers did to an off duty probationary LAPD officer- AFTER HE SHOWED HIS CREDS. They even went so far as to lie in the reports, on the stand and attempt to tamper with evidence.
They knocked him to the ground, and beat him before he was arrested and charged. Thankfully he was recently acquitted and got his job back after the LAPD fired him.
That sucks but it did work out for him in the end. I hope the officers who did that got charged. I also hope he wins a nice law suit.
Pat
I am reminded of the civil rights marchers in the deep south during the 1960’s - who got hosed by water cannons, beaten with billy clubs, and police dogs loosed on them - BEFORE they got unlawfully arrested.
Given that we now know of the IRS, EPA, and Lord only knows who else in gummint actively interfering with the Tea Party’s peaceful & lawful activities, I’ve been reluctant to go and get myself ‘unlawfully arrested’ at a rally, AND lose all my teeth, my long term memory, higher cognitive functions, and possibly an appendage, BEFORE such an unlawful arrest is concluded. :eek:
Great…
“We are going to violate the shit out of you but, hopefully, you get an empathetic judge…”
Pretty much sums it up…
Hopefully you are not motivated to shoot yourself in the head while handcuffed behind the back while sitting in the back of a police car…LINK
And in NY State, they want to criminalize annoying police officers…LINK
“At a time when shocking incidents of disrespect and outright confrontation are at an all-time high, the men and women who patrol the streets of our cities deserve every possible protection we can offer them,” Senator Griffo stated. “My bill would make it a crime to take any type of physical action to try to intimidate a police officer. This is a necessary action because we can see from the rise in incidents that too many people in our society have lost the respect they need to have for a police officer. We need to make it very clear that when a police officer is performing his duty, every citizen needs to comply and that refusal to comply carries a penalty.”
SteyrAUG-
I applaud what you did, sir.
My only disagreement would be to have demanded an apology from the officer. Let me explain why. The case I mentioned of the elderly gent, the MOST nicest, well dressed, educated, unassuming, LEAST THREATENING looking guy you could meet, ended with him going thru a ordeal that was very hard on him. He was booked, finger printed, weapon confiscated, and later learned they fired it to get a ballistic print of the gun…and put in a cell with some dangerous dudes for SIX hours. His own son is a member of this very dept.!
Anyway, when it was determined he had broken no law, as my understanding the detective was FORCED to apologise. He DID NOT want to do it. So, you have a cop, who made an illegal arrest of a very good guy, was PROVEN to him by the Asist. DA that the gent broke no law…AND THE COP NOT ONLY DIDNT TRIP OVER HIMSELF TO APOLGISE, BUT HAD TO BE FORCED TO?!!
F-HIM!! I would have made the cop apologise, and that would further teach him a lesson and to think twice about that shit before doing it again. They LOVE to tell us, " Ignorence of the law, is no excuse". Well BUDDY…THAT SHIT GOES FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT TOO.
There is no question that police should be held to a higher standard of conduct both on and off duty. My concern is how high things will escalate when the resistance becomes physical. The outcome would be bad for all parties involved.
My concern is with the idea that the agency, administration, and local judicial system have to enforce those standards on the officers. Far too often, misconduct is dismissed with a generic report after an ‘internal’ review…
Before the public trust can be restored, the Good Apples have to take care of the Bad Apples.
The good apples should lean heavily on the politicians with influence over the police agency if there is a pattern of misconduct. The ACLU lives for this sort of thing and is another avenue to address the problem as well.
As much as it goes against what our gut may tell us to stand up for what we feel is right, this is about the best advise I have seen. If you get excited or into a confrontation it will make it that much more difficult to accurately recall the events of what happened. Remember, there are cameras everywhere now days. Not all cruisers have cams, but most do. Do what you can to try to stay infront of the officers car. If you get into a scuffle & it rolls off cam it becomes his word against yours. Regardless of what laws allow, it is a HUGE gamble arguing up to and including fighting your point. Remember, chess, not checkers.
It sucks, no doubt. A wise old law dog (RIP) once gave me some advise that I think about everyday. “I’d rather let a hundred guilty men go that arrest one innocent man”. Unfortunately there are plenty of LEO’s that do not see it that way, just as sadly there are those on the beat who would enforce unconstitutional gun laws without a second though. Back on point, if you find yourself in a situation where you know you are right & being wronged, stay calm & express your concern if you wish but comply with the officer. The more you can play the role of the victim (which you are), the better it will be for you when you go to court.