Defense attorney John Rockecharlie argues it is the beginning of cell phone video, which captured the attention of the city, that makes the case.
“There it was in black and white for all to see exactly what happened,” Rockecharlie said of the video, which was shown in court Thursday.
Jason Dotson did not have any comment after the charges were dismissed, but described those first few seconds in an exclusive interview after his last court appearance.
“He touched me,” Dotson recalled. “As he was saying ‘get back’ he kind of stuck his arm out. I didn’t go towards him he just came and pushed me. He proceeded to hit me in the ribs and then that’s when he grabbed my neck.”
Rockecharlie maintained Dotson was allowed to question the officer’s actions.
“It’s age old law from the founding of the commonwealth that a person has a right to resist an unlawful arrest and that there was no lawful reason for the officer to put his hands on him in that fashion, so as he resisted the whole last half of that tape, he was doing so in self-defense,” Rockecharlie argued. http://www.nbc12.com/story/22523259/judge-dismisses-all-charges-in-shamrock-the-block-brawl
Both of you gentlemen have been polite and courteous, and I appreciate that very much.
I want every one else that posts in this thread to follow their fine example. We’ve had a fair number of threads go sideways lately, it would be neat for this one to stay polite.
The trick is, deciding if it is unlawful right there in the instant and then staking jail time on your own determination. If i was a lawyer, or off duty cop I might be able to diagnose the situation and resist that quickly. Otherwise your asking for trouble.
Either the officer involved will not know the arrest is unlawful and in that instance he will be of the mindset that he is enforcing the law and will do so up to and including the use of deadly force if necessary OR the officer will be knowingly engaging in an unlawful arrest and one must assume he will be willing to engage in other unlawful activities including the unlawful use of deadly force, especially as a means to conceal any unlawful activities on his part.
If you resist arrest, regardless of the merits of the arrest, there is an escalation of force that begins which will only end when one party is brought under control or conflict is fought to a stalemate of some kind. The problem is compounded by the fact that in resisting an “unlawful arrest” it is almost impossible to do so without violating other laws and now the conditions for “lawful arrest” will exist.
There are very few scenarios where you can actually win, especially at the time of arrest. Probably the best example of “unlawful activity” on the part of law enforcement is the Ruby Ridge incident, which was put into motion when authorities lied to the Weavers about seizing their property and then US Marshalls instigated a firefight with Weavers son. This was compounded by illegal rules of engagement in the subsequent standoff that cost more lives. Even though Weaver won the case, and much of the LE actions were found to be “illegal” it still came at a high cost to the Weaver family.
You better be prepared to accept similar costs if you decide to resist an “unlawful arrest” with force. As a result the only reason to do so IMO is if your loved ones are being directly threatened and you are taking what you feel are necessary steps to prevent serious injury or death.
Otherwise there is little or no oversight at the time of arrest and I don’t see any kind of practical plan that could be put in place to provide such things. And that is why the most “legal savy” people who know about “being arrested” simply stop talking and lawyer up. The problem is law abiding citizens aren’t nearly as well versed in the process as criminals.
I’m just looking at what is in front of me. If you have a better answer I’d love to hear it. Mine is kinda depressing.
The reality is if you feel the need to escalate the situation you better be prepared to play for all the marbles and the odds are not in your favor.
The only other Option B I can think of is become a civil rights lawyer and have a ACLU membership card hanging around your neck. But that won’t be practical for most of us.
We’ve had this kind of law in place for years in NC. I don’t know of a single time it’s been tried as a defense in court though I’m sure it’s been argued at some point.
The key thing, if a person was to try to act upon this law, is to know that the officer’s actions are illegal. Way too many people want to confuse illegal with “I don’t agree with X”
We have a similar law in Virginia and I know of at least once instance where an illegal arrest was resisted with lethal force. The person defended themselves against the illegal arrest, killing the police officer, was not convicted and may have not even been charged. I’ll dig out the details of the case tomorrow.
The judges decision is based on the video in the link. Based on that video evidence, what was the LEOs original intent? Specifically toward mr green undies? Arrest on a drunk and disorderly? Public intoxication? If so, why didnt they hook him and book him? I saw a lot of choke holds and physical intimidation. Why not remove suspects and de-escalate?
I feel like that may be what happened here. I live here where this happened and this sort of thing just doesn’t happen. Especially at that event or several others they have in a similar manner.
I’d like to know what the kid said to the LEO. He kept saying something about “my brother my brother” … That was his brother drunk sitting on the ground. Apparently he and green pants must have gotten into it. But that seemed like quite an over reaction when the brother leaned in and was trying to tell him something. He’s lucky he didn’t put the kid through that window. It just seemed like there was an abrupt reaction to something said after the main ordeal was diffused.
I think that kid may have said the wrong thing, to the wrong cop, at the wrong time because of something about his brother.
@David Pennington… this is Shockoe Bottom in Richmond, VA if that wasn’t clear.
I was just sitting here thinking, what in the world would have happened if he had shot the cop. ( aside from the fact that guns in the beer area were probably not allowed ). Obviously he would be dead now too, but holy cow, it’s a nightmare to think about.
I wonder if the Rutherford Institute in Charlottesville will get involved with this now.
@obucina – I can’t understand that either. The drunk guy on the ground ( sitting ) is the brother of the guy in fight. I don’t know what the deal with green pants was. I’m not sure why people weren’t removed except that you can’t get a car in there and maybe they were going to let green pants go. Drunk brother looked pretty much out of it though, … to be honest I have never seen police arrest anyone at these things, it’s simply not that type environment, I’m not sure how they get them out.
I find I arrest a lot of “constitutional lawyers” lol. Hell I just had a guy tell me that I didn’t “have” to arrest him for violating a protection order…lol REALLY???
You could catch someone walking out of electronic store at 3am with a window busted, alarm going off, tv in had, and a sign around their neck that says I STOLE THIS SHIT, and they would still claim its an “unlawful arrest”.
So ya, go for it. Or do the smart thing a voice your opinion in court…you know, what court is for…
The judge’s ruling causes me concern. Over the years I have had to arrest people who injected themselves into a situation that did not directly concern them.
If a LEO acts outside his authority, that should be a civil matter. If the LEO screws up, there should be civil damages. Civil and criminal recourse are two different things.
I made the Virginia comment @NCPatrolAR. I should have quoted it. I saw the video when it first came out and the cop fucked up.
I’ve been doing a bit of research. It’s not done yet but here are a few examples of when you could legally resist an unlawful arrest in Virginia:
-the officer is outside of their jurisdiction
-the officer uses excessive force
-the officer does not show proof of law enforcement authority (“…while displaying my badge of authority”)— this is how the off-duty deputy referenced above was justifiably killed
-the officer has clearly misidentified you
From the referenced video the cop clearly went way overboard and used excessive force. I used to know/train with a bunch of Richmond city cops and I’ve only ever had positive experiences with them but this one needs to be fired.
Generally speaking, “obstruction of justice” is one of the biggest bullshit charges known to man. If someone lays hands on you charge them with battery but other than that man up.
But this is not about the arrest of those that any reasonable person would assume to need to go before a court.
It’s about decisions and actions between police and citizens that are reasonably assumed -not- committing a crime. It’s about loss of self control.
No one has an issue with arresting the drunk brother or even green pants. The issue is with people that are exhibiting no illegal behavior and then end up getting treated worse than the actual bad guys.
Do you not see this as problem? One that should have a solution.
I agree, I’ve never seen anything remotely like this. In fact… had this not escalated… I think they would have told green pants to go about his business and told the twins if they left now with the one being sober, they could forgo a trip to jail for the drunk one.
How about when back up arrives and you have to decide if you are going to stop and be arrested or take on the backup who aren’t doing anything illegal by responding to the “officer in need of assistance” call.
We recently had a big legal brief at work about consequences of unlawful arrests and violations of civil rights. I don’t know if it was a new federal law, new local law or maybe just going over existing law. Either way it stated that the officer is liable to be sued for those actions and they had some examples of people getting pretty good money from unlawful arrests.
If I new I was being unlawfully arrested I wouldn’t fight because that just escilates things. I would damn sure get a good lawyer after being released.