The author was on NPR, and it was an interesting interview how the Muslim religion had an impact on some of the Founders:
“While conceding that many Americans in that era viewed Islam with suspicion, classifying Muslims as dangerous and unworthy of inclusion within the American experiment, she also shows that such leading figures as Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and George Washington spurned exclusionary arguments, arguing that America should be open to Muslim citizens, office-holders, and even presidents. Spellberg’s point is that, contrary to those today who would dismiss Islam and Muslims as essentially and irretrievably alien to the American experiment and its religious mix, key figures in the era of the nation’s founding argued that that American church-state calculus both could and should make room for Islam and for believing Muslims.”
I had never read in any American history that there was ever a policy or group think that Muslims should not be included in American citizenry or leaders. Where does that idea come from? So I guess it is not surprising that our some of Founders thought they should be included.
Not entirely positive that Islam had an impact on the Founding Fathers as much as ALL religions of the day did. Jefferson was a staunch proponent of separation of church and State and basically said all religions, to include Islam, should be free to worship as they please in the United States without government interference.
My guess is this is yet another case of someone taking significant liberties with something Jefferson said and twisting it to mean what they want.
The more important question to Americans might be…does Islam make room for other religions?
Sure, our county’s founders made ways for other religions but take a look at most countries that were founded and run by Islam. They are not NEARLY as tolerant of Christians, Jews or any other religions at all. You would probably be put in jail if you set out a nativity scene in December in Saudi Arabia.
Why does the left blatantly ignore Islam’s lack of “tolerance” for anything outside of Islam?
I seriously doubt any of the founding fathers were promoting Islam in any real fashion. With the founding of our country, religious freedom was one of the biggest issues making America different. The demand was for the government to exert no influence or control on them, such as what they had experienced in England and elsewhere. In America a citizen was just that, a citizen regardless of religion.
Many people don’t realize that “separation of church and state” meant, and still means, the government must not regulate religious group’s freedoms and practices. It does not mean, or have anything to do with religion being allowed to have an impact on the government. Unfortunately, there have always been godless people, without any true moral compass, who want to eliminate any and all forms of religion from having an impact on our society and government. Their rights are preserved along with everyone’s, but think of our country without any sort of compass, drifting with the breeze of an ever changing moral landscape.
For those who fear religious groups getting out of hand, meaning committing crimes against others, we have laws for that.
There is such thing as a reformed Muslim, somebody who believes in every tenet of Islam, but has not made themselves incompatible with a free society. When these folks try to reform Islam from within, they’re usually killed, but they are exactly the sorts of people we want in this country for a different perspective, and the other fact that these sorts of people are educated, intelligent, respectful, and productive.
The purpose of separation of church and state is to prevent a religious entity from co-opting the government monopoly on legal violence, and virtually nothing else. Anybody literate with the desire to learn can find out this information, but clearly there are ulterior motives for those who engage in that sort of meaningless demagoguery.
Political Islam is incontrovertibly incompatible with western society, but the religion of Islam itself fits in extremely well. The fact that almost exclusively intellectuals can even comprehend the distinctions is why the argument is fundamentally in the wrong place right now.
according to some in history they had the book to understand what they were up against ! since we had a lot of problems with them in our early years and it was not to welcome them but to understand the enemy in there own words they were out to destroy us !!
it would be like having mein kampf in your library and then trying to make the connection that you liked Hitler and were supporting him !!!
typical twist of muslim propaganda going on again !!!
Saudi Arabia wasn’t a country during the Founding Fathers time. There was however the Ottoman Empire, which was quite tolerant of other religions. Just had to pay more in tax.
Islam today is radicalized from the 20th century decolonization/anti-imperalist (technically “protectorates” after WWI) movement, as well as in response to the perceived influx of decadent western culture.
One can be religious and not have a relationship with God. It’s generally somebody claiming a religion and trying to follow their rules, since they probably should. The Crusaders, as a group, fit that bill. Many politicians do too, for obvious reasons, without the attempt at following any rules, of course.
But, without a spiritual compass, where does one get a true definition of what’s right and wrong? If another worldly man tells you, then it’s probably just his opinion or point of view which he stumbled upon. That’s basically another philosophy called Humanism, which is constantly in flux. Trusting another human, concerning such an important topic, seems problematic.
and you could also say as long as you knew you would be living a lower class citizen under certain restrictions etc… quite tolerant ? NO
making you say muslims were superior is not tolerance !
decided I don’t want to be a muslim but a Christian ! usually meant death ! that again is not tolerant
did some tolerance exits yes but not what I would have wanted to live in ! at the same time though the muslims were still a major problem the thing is back then the numbers were not as much in there favor where today they just destroy most of the christian populations in radical countries like we see happening and if they had the numbers on there side back then it might not have been like it was without Russia and other countries coming in to try to help the other religions etc…
islam is not being radicalized ! it has been its just you are seeing more act out on it !
radical jihad is there nature its how they destroyed and took over persia its how they swept north Africa etc… jump to the birth of our country and a ways before the barbary pirates were another show of what they were about !
Compared to the current CA/IL/NY/NJ socioeconomic situation, Dhimmitude under the Ottoman Empire must have been a relatively tax-free, liberty rich experience.
Interesting point. Wasn’t it Jefferson who sent the Marines to try to rescue the Americans taken hostages by the pirates at Tripoli? That would make sense to try to understand what they are about.
yup Jefferson and Adams talked with the tripoli ambassador ? about why the pirating was going on basically ambassador said it is our religion if you are not muslim we enslave you or destroy you or convert you they were curious so they read the book much like our fathers got there life out of the bible at that time they figured the same thing of the muslims
and yup knowing bribery or trying to be civil does not work with the people destroying them is the only way once they read the quran they knew what to do !
I think its pretty well documented even what they said and why they have it ? but again total OH muslims are the religion of peace propaganda taking over
and if a muslim leader owned a bible (and they do) its not cause they want to integrate the two and live in harmony !!!
I am just getting sick of this complete ignorance and want to change history ? while I can’t write grammar issues I know history quite well and just amazes me these people once they say OH look how nice they are they will be enslaved beheaded or killed ! and they are to stupid to get it
Yes, apostasy was a punishable offense. The tax wasn’t that much extra. Typically less than Christian nations.
Russia intervened in Ottoman affairs for the “protection of the Orthodox Church”. In reality it was just an excuse in attempts at Russia gaining access to a warm water port through Constantinople.
Keep in mind, this is the Russia who is famous for pogroms. The reality is, Christians were just as bad. The problem is people, not whatever they believe. Give them any idea and they will take it too extremes. Christian, Jew, Muslim, Zoroastrian, socialist, fascist, capitalist, vegan, whatever.
its obvious you are muslim or love them for some reason ?
while people in the name of many religions did things the muslims have been the worst and continue today to be so most evolved past the things they did and give them a idea ? the problem is the muslims don’t need a idea its just in there nature and the way there so called peaceful religion is !!!
I have yet to see Mormons, Catholics or Methodists run planes into buildings, set off bombs at marathons or chop people’s heads off on film in my lifetime.
I know history quite well and just amazes me these people once they say OH look how nice they are they will be enslaved beheaded or killed ! and they are to stupid to get it