It's OK to insult a man's rifle here, right?

General General Discussion
1

Because he didn’t buy/couldn’t afford the “accepted” brand/s? So, have at it? That “extra” $100 is not possible for alot of people, ever. Even subltley, like, well, for another $100 dollars “you could have had…” or whatever. The basic AR is extremely reliable. For MOST applications.
“So and So” bought a DPMS, Bushmaster, etc. Well, let’s point out his rifle’s wrongs. Some lend helping hands, stake the bolt carrier etc. Awesome. Others just want to shit on his/her parade, for shits sake. Aren’t we all on the same side? Well, supposed to be.? Good helpful comments are, just that. A new AR owner doesn’t need a boatload of shit from people he is reaching out to.
Let’s get better about the way we respond to our fellow black rifle owners. Better attitudes. Not insults.

           dog
2

I don’t see most members “insulting” anyone. I also don’t see how a extra “100 dollars” isn’t possible when where talking about a major purchase…

3

I think someone on here said it best -

“there’s nobody that can afford a bushmaster but not a Colt”

If you can drop hundreds of dollars on a rifle, what’s another hundred dollars? I dont want to hear stuff like “but then my children wont have shoes”. If money is that tight, then maybe you shouldnt be looking at AR’s. Just save up a little longer if you have to.

I could be wrong, and it wouldnt be the first time, but that’s just the way I see it.

4

While I agree with you in premise, I do not believe that the posters with valued opinions ever actually “shit” on someone because of their purchase.

The opinions I look for on this board are the ones that are consistent and educated. Rob S., The Katar, Greg Bell, Stickman (light on opinion, heavy on amazing pictures–thanks brother!) and the like are the people I look for to tell it like it is without the ever present “internet Fuck You.”

$100 is a lot of money. We all know this. I think the problem comes with the following posts, and it’s been said before:

Post #1: I have $1000 to spend on a rifle. I’ve looked at DPMS, RRA and Bushmaster. They have good prices. Opinions?

Response #1-10: Those are all shit. Get a BCM from Grant for $1134, and get some ammo and practice, practice, practice. (Great advice, smart, and repeated about 10000000 times here.)

Post#2: Well, I didn’t have the extra $134 dollars, so I got a RRA. I am popping primers using some 5.56 ammo, what do I do?

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While I agree that $100 is a lot of money, If you can save up $1000, is it THAT much more? If it means that you don’t have to replace a BCG ($150) or don’t have to beg/borrow/steal Ned’s tool, or don’t have oodles of problems out of the gate, saving for an extra week or two for that extra $134 is well worth it.

The facts are: Most of us are never going to use a rifle enough to break it beyond repair. It can happen, it does happen, it has happened, and it will happen again. Most of us wouldn’t take a class with a “lesser” rifle, because classes are where most of us are going to experience the heaviest round count, and the most potential for problems. The Chart weapons will perform for us in these situations.

The other issue is: Is your life worth more than $134 dollars? Honestly… I would rather use a handgun or shotgun for self-defense, because I know that they are reliable for me. Less complexity means less potential problems. But, a rifle is tried and true, and a tried and true rifle is all you need at home.

This site is a bastion of information, all of it repeated thousands of times for those who are willing to listen.

Buy once, cry once. And in the larger picture, $134 bucks is NOTHING. 3 dinners and a movie for you and your wife/girlfriend/husband/boyfriend.

(also, as a side note, that BCM on Grant’s site is very well outfitted, features better components, and is trusted on THIS board by the people I, and most enthusiasts, can respect. That is worth way more than $134 dollars to me, and should be for any potential firearm owner, especially on a platform than can be a major headache when things go wrong. I’d rather post here once, get shit on for my choices, pick a quality rifle, and never ever have to come with my hat in hand begging for help with a situation I could have avoided by stretching my wallet just a tiny little bit more.)

5

The problem is that it is often more than $134. You can buy some of the more common “lesser” brands for as low as $600 or so now. There are people for whom that is a lot of money. They may save for a few years to raise that much money (I get that sort once in a while who have saved for 5 or 10 years to buy a Dillon RL 550 B press, which is only $407 plus a set of dies). For them it is almost double the amount to buy the better gun.

Both sides have points. I think that those who politely give advice on staking, perhaps watching certain parts and upgrading/replacing them eventually are doing the best service.

6

No, it’s not a matter of insulting a man’s rifle.

There is a typical patern.

Someone buys or owns a rifle that does not have the important features either because they bought it before they knew better or they did not have the money, and then start insisting that their rifle is ‘just as good as’ or that those features are not as important. This starts an argument.

My view is that if you want something AR like to shoot and generally plink, you can buy a gun without some of the features. But many people do this and later become unhappy with it and want something better. Typically if they waited longer, they might have been able to afford it.

My thought on this is that as long as you have a firearm that can serve well in the home defense role, you are better off waiting to get a better quality AR.

Of course all this has been complicated by the recent price hikes and availability problems and panic buying that has just calmed down.

7

Someone buys or owns a rifle that does not have the important features either because they bought it before they knew better or they did not have the money, and then start insisting that their rifle is ‘just as good as’ or that those features are not as important. This starts an argument.

Im sure this has happened plenty of times. BUT I have seen it happen SO many times here when people do not have any problem and they are degraded for not having a top tier rifle which CAUSES them to insist their rife is just as good.

There are far to many people here that use “The Chart” so they can feel superior to others, most of whom either sold or do not use the low tier rifles they own and are on a power trip to spread the gospel of the chart to everyone on the internet.

These important features you point out are not important to everyone, but since they are on “The Chart” people here refuse to accept that for most people they dont matter. Not everyone here defends their live with a rifle, and most people that come here will never shoot enough rounds for the important features to matter.

These important features like, full auto BCG, 1:7" twist, barrel steel?
Most people here do not have an auto rifle, and will not shoot enough for it to matter.
Most people here will only use 55 grain ammo and will never use anything in the 70+ grain range. So 1:9 twist will cover it, and will also wear slower than 1:7.
Most people here will never wear out their barrel no matter what twist or steel they have.

When I say “MOST” people I mean out of the total members, not the members that post the most. “MOST” people only post a few times because of the treatment they get from asking a question, or not at all when they read how people are treated.

8

double posts sorry :slight_smile:

9

I dont see it unjustified that much here at all ?

a lot of people want to hear their bushmaster is every bit as good as a Noveske ?
especially when they bought it for $800 then put another $600 into it and find out they could have spent $1400 and gotten something better first time around !!!

for some reason rather than saying thanks and learning they feel they need to backup or defend their stuff ? or sadly tuck their tail and leave or say they felt picked on !!!

its actually refreshing to hear the truth from people than to hear a line of OH yes you have a great rifle there blah blah stroke stroke

sorry just my take on things :slight_smile:

also wanted to say I only hear this from certain people maybe ? again know who is posting and understand where they are coming from I know who to listen to and who to ignore if someone says something look up their past posts etc. find out if they know their stuff etc… KNOW who is saying WHAT

plus learn not to get your twinkies steamed over something over what someone on a forum thinks of your rifle I say :slight_smile:

10

How timely.

I had typed a big reply, but the network booted me off and I lost it.

Basically, be honest with yourself. If you post a picture of your toy, and that’s all it really is to you, then somebody saying “that’s a piece of shit fighting rifle” shouldn’t matter. If I post a picture of my SUV and someone says “that’s a shitty sports car” I don’t get offended.

Also, if someone posts a pic and says “look at this”, I’ll typically leave them to their ignorance. If, however, they say “what do you guys think”, then they get no sympathy when people tell them what they think.

and what is this “insult a rifle”. The very usage of that term betrays the exact kind of thing we’re discussing in the link at the top of this post. You ain’t no Clint Eastwood, and that Oly Plinker ain’t no mule.

11

a lot of people want to hear their bushmaster is every bit as good as a Noveske ?

Again, I sure it happens. Most people post their low tier rifle and get told how it isnt staked, they put a cheap sight on it, wrong accessories suck, and what ever else the senoir members see unfit. Which leads to the same posting of the BMC middy link to G&R tactical.

There are many members here that are knowledgeable and are great sources of info, a lot of them have an elitist attitude. There are even more that follow their lead like zombies and just repost the same stuff, like it is their first hand info just to fit in.

12

and there are a lot of people that seem to persist in being here JUST to be the contrarian opinion of the “good enough” crowd, yet when pressed about their “fit and finish” posts can’t actually provide anything to back up their statements or elaborate on their opinions and give examples of specific brands.

Look, not all sites are for all people. TOS has tried to be all things for all people so that the owners can make a buck and have a celebrity status and look what a mess that is. If M4C is the home of people that have a need (perceived or real) for the best quality firearms and training, and some people that would rather buy a Sportical and shoot 200 rounds a year get offended by that and leave, so what? If they get upset and leave, so what? Better that then staying and taking every opportunity to tell the established membership that they’re stupid and mean.

Personally I’d rather see the integrity of the site maintained than have a shiny happy place where all people are welcome. I’m here because we DON’T get a lot of bullshit from the 200-rounds-per-year-from-the-bench crowd.

13

I really dont see how bringing up a locked thread serves any purpose, except to bait me in to continuing it in this thread, and getting me banned.

This just shows that you feel the need to weed out anyone you think might be from the “TOS”, I guess you have a personal vendetta since you were banned there.

I was never a member there and only read posts from there when it was linked here or turned up on google. But I will say it like the mods do here, if you have a problem with me, PM me if there is a problem.

I’m here because we DON’T get a lot of bullshit from the 200-rounds-per-year-from-the-bench crowd.

You run those people away like they tried to give you AIDS. Honestly I dont even want to take a training class if the people in the class are going to act like alot of the senior members here.

14

Well, you could either lead from the front or castigate folks en masse which is what you just did.

15

It seems you know what castigate means, but that is a stretch. I have learned a lot about people that use uncommon words to describe something simple over the years. Most use big words because they can not deal with the argument and try to sound smart by using some big words to gain an advantage. The rest either have no idea what the word actually means and got it from word of the day toilet paper, and still use it because they can not win the argument.

16

perna - Consider this a warning.

This thread is going to go no where but downhill.