I was just reading the article on about the Wanat battle was wondering if maybe some of these guys when cyclic with their carbine which caused the overheating. If maybe they were better trained on keeping their ROF their guns would not have overheated.
The average soldier has a 3 round burst option on his M4. Full auto M4’s are not common. The average soldier probably never heard an intelligent discussion, such as one you might find on this site, about the use of full auto, or 3 round burst.
The average Soldier is not trained on full auto or 3 round burst on the M4. The Army focuses on aimed semi-auto rifle fire.
An Infantryman is trained on 6 to 9 round bursts on full auto weapons like the SAW, M240, and M2.
x2 when I was in the Army (11B1P) we were always told to first on semi, every so often we were expected to use 3 round burst, but spairngly depending on mission ( i never saw combat, this is just from combat simulations and war games ARTEP) but usually to conserve ammo and not overheat the barrels. Also we were always told to get better aimed shots and really to only use 3 round burst when doing suppresive/cover fire.
But things have changed a lot since I got out in 04.
In the Bee’s all of our AR’s are semi or full automatic. No burst. One of the things the Navy did get right. Our fire teams each have one designated automatic rifleman. We do not have SAW’s. I’ve explained many a time that full auto for us equals waste of ammo and lots of misses. Once someone gets to blast off a bunch of full auto fire the curiosity is minimized. On the COP’s the Marines always seemed surprised that our weapons were full auto. On the convoy teams when rounds were fired with the M-16’s/M-4’s they were always on semi. Full auto for belt fed, semi for rifles.
There are specific tactics that specialized teams use that require full auto (or a fast finger). React to close ambush, or when doing a small unit tactical withdrawal with a maneuver known as the “banana split” or “flick and flee”.
in 10 years i have used burst on my rifle(other then training/range) 1 time, if i need burst/auto i will find a 249 to use.
Or Ranger Peel, or Australian Peel.
But to answer the question, Most soldiers only get basic level of rifle training in Basic Training. Once they get to there unit, most soldiers will only do a basic qual twice a year with their M4. That means your average soldier with two to three years in the Army is sent to combat having fired less than 1000 (and perhaps less 500) rounds of 5.56mm in their entire life!
In most cases, your average 11B in light infantry units like the 101st and 82nd does have considerably more training in the use of their M4 but most would argue that there is still plenty of room for improvement. This also represents a very small portion of the Army. I have often called the 82nd ‘the army within the Army.’
In Mech units, small arms training often takes a back seat to Gunnery. And, anyone operating a major system like a truck or artillery piece spends most of their time training on and maintaining those systems (or sleeping in the motor pool).
Bottom line, I am throwing the Leadership under the bus for failing to provide realistic and relevant training.
This is always a very real issue. Right now part of the problem is funds going to support “gaming” training and not live fire training.
The good news is that firearms training in the Army is being and has been upgraded thanks to experience overseas, the Asymetric Warfare Group, and new training aids like the LOMAH range system. Soldiers are now taught basic reflexive fire and there is more focus on safe weapon handling.
Of course, it is still never enough training.
The LOMAH system is very cool, I never shot on it but I have watched it in use (I work in the Army range program now as a dirty civilian). LOMAH ranges have down range sensors on each standard pop up target that detect the bullet’s passage based on the sonic boom (triangulation). Each firing point has a computer screen, as well as the tower. A soldier can MISS his target completely, but if he is somewhat close the LOMAH will show exactly where his bullet was instantly. A Soldier can engage a 300m target and get instant feedback on their shot group.
Needless to say, LOMAH is not cheap.
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Comments duly noted.
This may be true at some levels. But it’s hard to perform such training when the parent organization takes away your unit’s ammo allotment year after year. The reality is all that is required is for Soldiers to shoot just enough to qualify once a year and nothing more.
Marksmanship does alway seem to take a back seat to SRPs, AG Inspections, Retirement Ceremonies, etc. :mad:
good post. not to get too far off topic, but i have had the same experience w/ IA and IP, the kurds are the only ones that give a damn, when the rest of their country wants them dead.
Yep!
Again, Leadership, at all levels, up and down the chain of command. Good leadership fixes everything.
The good news is that there is ice cream in the KBR chow hall!
Only in a “banana /center peal”. It essentially equates to me as a “panic switch”. Semi-auto fire is more accurate and keep heads down just as well. Suppressive fire weapons are there to make sure the heads stay down.
I got to use the LOMAH system at Ft Knox it was really helpful with My battle Buddy that was shooting(could not focus on target).
we had a little screen right Next to us that showed us where the strike was and you could adjust as needed great training tool in my book ,Now the SIM range was a joke to me.it help some soldiers that have never shot a rifle.
get a air blow back recoil.but I have seen better graphics in play station games.
We used the 3rd Burst only when we did Live fire convoy training.all other times was a controlled single round fire,Most of the DS said to leave the accurate suppressing fire to the 249 and 240.and we were 19Kilo so we relly did most F/A training was done on the 50 cal ,a 240 Bravo above loaders hatch and the 240 charlie next to the Main gun
As mentioned, FA fire is used to spring ambushes and to break contact, with whatever “fire and maneuver” tactic (Center peel, reverse bounding over watch, etc…) your unit uses. Any other contact would be well addressed with accurate aimed semi fire. Anything else is a waste of ammo and lacks fire discipline.
I would add “accurate suppressive fire” to the comment above, especially with crew served weapons. You’d like to kill some BGs too, if possible, while keeping there heads down. Too many folks equate “suppressive fire” with shooting over their heads.
“accurate suppressive fire” very true .The spray and pray is a waste .Accurate fire is the king of the battle field:D
My m16 never saw “burst” unless we were ending a field op and needed to burn through blanks before going back to the company office. 
Effective fire= you are killing them.
Suppressive fire= you are getting an A+ for effort, but they are staying down and behind cover!