Let’s suppose the DiFi bill passes as written, Obamacare stays in place, no movement on the debt happens, basically business as usual. Is anywhere truly better than America?
Honest question, I know there are about 50 countries that guarantee the same rights as the U.S., but what about places with even more and still a high standard of living? Or is America still top dog, even on the road its on?
I’ve thought the same thing but haven’t really looked hard. My son says New Zealand would be a good fit for me but I don’t know.
I too have been thinking of a “Worst Case Scenario” exodus plan.:cray:
I know a few that have retired in Panama.
Don’t know if that is a good option, though.
Europe is out…higher cost of living…high taxes and strict gun laws. Ditto for NZ and AUS.
Hopefully by that time, Texas will have seceded. LOL
-brickboy240
Interesting topic and I am interested in seeing what people have to say on the subject.
I do a fair bit of international business travel and have discussed this question for several years with colleagues who have a similar perspective and flexibility. Most of them more concerned about taxes and economic freedom than RKBA, but the two often go hand in hand.
What I’ve found in research and talking with other knowledgeable people is that there really are not other good options. Very few if any countries have better gun laws than our (awful) gun laws here, and only a few countries are really better in other respects such as tax rates, government, standard of living, and general common sense among the people. Many of the places that get talked up actually have significant dark sides, but are talking their book to attract wealthy retirees and keep their money. Panama is probably on the edge of that category, and most of Latin American certainly is.
Here is the short, short list of countries I would consider for emigration - all of them have some issues:
Canada
Netherlands
Denmark
Switzerland
Czech Republic
Poland
Chile
Uruguay
Of those, the Czech Republic probably has the best gun laws. Good luck getting residency in Switzerland if you aren’t rich, and none of those are open doors. Canada is relatively open if you are under 40 and have a marketable skill - especially something in demand out in their oil patch. Nominal tax rates are generally higher, but you may find the total tax bite not worse, and the government services better in some.
Australia is rabidly anti-gun these days, difficult in general, and probably the doorstep of WW3. New Zealand is pleasant in many ways but has serious racial issues, a limited economy, and is not really all that gun friendly.
Still hoping for the creation of “Texazona”…
I think the title says it all. “The grass is always greener (on the other side)” is a cautionary statement. Things may look better from where you are, but rarely live up to that expectation.
The USA is still the magnet for people from all over the world. There’s a reason (or, reasons) for that, despite the shortfalls of our systems and the people involved.
We have lived in the Netherlands and France. Neither one is gun friendly and the tax rates are higher than here. Wouldn’t move to either.
The US is still the best country, despite the current issues we face. I look at it as which states are best to live. So much so that we recently left the east coast and moved west.
I’d be happy moving anywhere knowing full well that I dont have individual liberty, and that I am just going to be another wheel in the cog. The intrigue of the USA was that you had liberties that couldnt be taken away, but once they are fully stripped there has to be warmer and sunnier places to be.
Plus, let’s be honest. The one thing we are really, really bad at is government. We can’t even have a decent DMV here. In the UK, when you sell a car, you send them a postcard. Here you have to jump through hoops while carrying a burning twig in your teeth, and be careful to smile at the clerk while doing it or she will send you to the back of line for another document.
Take away the bill of rights and you might as well think about moving.
bc
I know some of the old Armalite guys moved to Singapore. An American can also live pretty well in the Philippines. There are a few places in Europe but you can’t just move there unless you are bringing something to the table and they want you.
Sadly I don’t think there is a “the US I used to know” equivalent. The best option currently seems to be to go almost off the grid someplace like North Dakota or Montana where you can live a mostly self sufficient lifestyle but one that has a quality of life as well so you don’t call a tire hut a house.
Cuba is a potential “wild card” once Castro goes if they decide to normalize relations with the US by adopting a form of capitalism like China. Could be much like Key West in the 60s, but no guarantees it would last.
Used to live in Dominican Republic, place is awesome. You can buy the land and build whatever type of house you want. NO TAXES for land or house, you pay, you own.
You pay sales tax when you buy anything (food, clothes, etcc), like here but that’s about it. You can get a carrying permit BUT no AR’s as far as I remember and gas is expensive, around $10/gal. One more thing to consider is crime, certain areas are bad but if you consider moving into the country, then whoever is going to rob you should read this: TRESPASSER WILL BE SHOT, SURVIVORS WILL BE SHOT AGAIN.
One more thing, You get around $40.00 pesos per $1 U.S. Dollars I believe, so if you make around 3500/ month you’ll live a very good life.
Texas looks nicer and nicer…Air conditioning is an acceptable cost of freedom, IMHO. Secession movement? There are fringe movements to live on ships in the ocean, to live on the moon/Mars/etc. But there aren’t any movements to claim a useful piece of land for freedom-loving people. Pushing secession is the best viable option IMHO. I’m thinking that a lot of states from the Rockies to the deep south would follow the trend if Texas would just take the leap.
Just what we need another civil war. That is what happened the last time some states tried succession.
Wait…How many soldiers are from Texas? How many people would sympathize with the cause of secession? How many military bases are in Texas (and would be cut off, likely just assimilate into Texas anyway?)? How many people would want to join Texas in secession? And why do you think it would go down violently?
Most people wouldn’t want a shooting war. The public doesn’t have the stomach for such things (as long as Texas didn’t go do some fool thing like shoot it out with some people from a neighboring state on the way out). Too many people don’t consider Texas “valuable” as a state for anyone to really gain traction to bring it back to the union.
And if they wanted Texas back for obvious economic reasons, going to war wouldn’t be the way to regain the state.
I think most of the central US would quickly follow. It would be a huge gain for freedom-loving folk. Cheap energy, food, resources, access to (hopefully) the Mississippi and the gulf, the benefits of the productive central US seceding would far outweigh the costs. The US would need a free trade agreement to keep the whole deal alive, of course; they don’t have the farming capacity to make it without the flyover states. So we’d secure that and be set. I don’t even think it would be a permanent change; most likely, the other states would just join Texas, one by one, as they realized Texas had it far better their way.
“When a place gets crowded enough to require ID’s, social collapse is not far away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is that it made it possible to go elsewhere.”
[right]-Robert Heinlein[/right]
In other words, the grass is greener on Mars.
C’mon you guys!!
No one should even entertain the idea of moving away. The answer is No.
Our problems here are 100% government abuse related. So the solution, after a more-than-reasonable period of time of trying to have our concerns acted upon, will be to pick an area and declare independence.
Don’t leave. Don’t even think about it. Stay here and keep voting and writing letters and speaking up, until your backs are against the wall and you have no other options but to fight. Then give them hell. I submit to you that the American Patriot is the most fearsome soldier on the planet.
The constitution was an experiment. No republic had been created like this before ours. The world is watching, almost like one watches the test-flight of an x-plane, wondering if it’ll fly or explode into the desert floor. We can’t fail. That’ll prove, for many, that people cannot self-govern, keep a republic, keep liberty, etc. The constitution is an idea, so it cannot die. Resurrect!!! It lives inside us. The only way it’ll die is if we allow it to, and abandon this land. Running away is not an option if you have any honor whatsoever.
I plan on being as involved as I can be, but at the same time, squirreling away some supplies and keeping my finger on the pulse of the patriot movement. If things get back-to-the-wall intense, and a state/region appears to be ready to declare independence, that’s where I’ll head to. But no way in hell am I leaving conus.
Only problem is the DR is the other half of the same island with Haiti. People act like there is some kind of actual border that separates the two. Under the right conditions the DR could become East Haiti in only a few months.
I spent time in SG and PI. SG was cool, but extremely expensive and legally restrictive. PI was cheap as hell, but damn I had some good times there.