I remember all the fanfare, so to speak, in waiting for the SCAR and ACR. At one time I thought of selling my LMT to fund a new SCAR/ACR, but after their release I’ve been a little less than overwhelmed with them. My wife now claims the LMT and I now have a Colt 6920 that I am getting closer to setting up the way I want it. I no longer entertain the idea of selling one of my M4’s to fund one of these new carbines but now I wonder if they are worth the price of investment. I feel the ACR has future potential, but as of now I feel it is unrealized potential. At this point in time I feel I’m better served by my Colt and LMT. My question to you guys is, how many of you still prefer a quality M4 carbine, for your own needs, over the new carbines? Just curious.
Aside from a few that might be shooting the latest and greates at hostile human beings on a regular basis, I’m sure most here will have the same sentiment as you. I think it will be quite a while before this forum changes to www.SCARcarbine.net or www.ACRcarbine.net.
Wouldn’t even consider changing. The tried and true things in life last for a reason. The rest are just fads. The 1911 is one example…
I still have my first AR is bought in 1975. It is still viable.
But, I am a lefty and find the ACR to be superior to the AR for my needs and wants. I also think my Glocks are superior to my 1911s for different reasons.
Superiority does not always imply inferiority when it comes to guns.
Is the AK still viable? The M4 will be viable for just as long.
+1
I can’t say I’ve never thought about it, but I would definately never replace my AR’s with SCAR’s or ACR’s. Not until at least another 5-10 years down the road when and if it has a more proven track record. That’s just the thing though, I know what my AR can do and her track record is very well proven and documented. So why mess with a good thing.
Now if your talking about just getting one on the side, Eh…
I wouldnt replace my AR. The AR has a long track record and the weaknesses of the system are known and can be easily taken care of. We dont know what the weak points of the SCAR and ACR are yet?
I used the M16 in Iraq and I know and trust the system.
Is it still viable? Of course!
It’s still:
Reliable, ergonomic and modular enough.
Guns don’t just stop working, just because something slightly better comes along.
How likely will the outcome of a fight be affected if someone uses a SCAR instead of an M4?
Yes.
I cant lie, my 6920 still holds a special place in my collection despite my owning the latest and greatest
why wouldn’t it be?
Simple answer…YES
It has worked for me on several trips to the sandbox.
For my personal use I have no reason to dump my M16FOW for anything else in 5.56.
Why dump something you know works for something that may work? Like others have said, the weaknesses of the AR platform are well known, the weaknesses of the ACR and SCAR are unknown.
Yes, very viable.
There is nothing wrong with a proven design. The only thing missing with most end users, is knowledge (on various means to employ, manipulate, and how to keep it running). Same can be said for any other weapon system out there.
I’m just getting into the AR game, I’ve always been an AK guy. I had an AR once, but traded it for a Jeep.
After lurking here and other places, I decided on a DD M4. I could have gotten a SCAR, ACR or whatever new whiz-bang gun is out there, but dollar for dollar, nothing beats this platform for customizing, mission adaptability and real world SHTF use.
Sure it has some faults, but we know what they are and how to over-come them. I cant say the same for the new kids on the block.
The AR15 will be king for decades to come. There is just too many people using them, and even if the military switches over there are not enough companies making the guns to keep up with the rates at which people buy the AR.
Why does a SCAR or ACR cost over 2k? Because they have a limited market. Even if they make the “next” military gun, and the price drops to say $1200-1500 you only have ONE source for the gun. With the AR you have literally dozens of companies making them, supply is good, and prices range from 500-3000+ for a complete weapon. That expensive price point on the ACR and SCAR put a lot people out of the market. All the DPMS, Oly, BM, RRA crowd…plus all the guys like many on here who have invested tens of thousands into the AR, training on it, going to combat with it, etc are not just going to jump to a new system just because the bean counters decided its the next mil gun.
What has kept the AR going all these years is the ability to adapt, and configure the gun. Its a system that easily changes with the times. 20 years ago, or maybe even 10 years ago…no would would imagined we have the selection we do today. There are a number of high end barrel makers out there, you can put just about any optic on the gun, you have 20+ viable stock choices, different triggers, forends range from 13" FF to your basic carbine CAR handguards. What do you get to modify on the ACR or SCAR? You get to decide what optic goes on the gun I guess. Shorty barrels are nowhere to be seen. Its not the best choice in the DMR/SPR role. Maybe that will change at some point in the future but these guns have already been in the making for many many years, not both of them are going to be the next mil gun if the mil changes at all. So one is going to remain a niche gun there are hardly any aftermarket parts for.
My own personal opinion is that both the ACR, and SCAR try to play off the false notion that DI is inherently unreliable. In using them for quite a few years now in both a civilian and military capacity Ive found them to be very reliable, and I don’t see the ACR or SCAR being any significant improvement. They are just modern versions of the classic over barrel piston assault rifle. They operate the same basic way but are just dressed up for the 21st century. Polymer instead of wood, and AL instead of steel. 1913 rails instead of open notch graduated sights. Who cares? The AR has been doing that for years now.
ETA: Id be more interested in buying a G36 than either the SCAR or ACR. A factory SBR G36C would be awesome to play with…
I think that barrels and ammo being roughly the same, the SCAR and ACR may not help you put accurate shots down faster or more reliably. I cant wait to try them out and see for myself.
What I am trying so unsuccessfully to say is that, unless you can have faster follow ups and/or a proven reliability advantage or equivelant there is no other reason than personal preference to go with anything else.
Personal preference can mean looks, ergonomics, cleaning ease etc.
i have zero experience with the new plastic carbines… but since i’ve still never fully tapped the potential of the M4, i can’t see any need to “upgrade,” and i think the same applies to basically everyone. as already stated, the M4 is the most customizable, adaptable weapon platform ever put into mass production- you can only improve on it by improving it, which we do all the time.
if a guy wants a SCAR or ACR- more power to him. but when we’re talking “need,” there isn’t any.
and re-reading my post, i’ll just add: its my opinion that the new series of plastic carbines isn’t an “upgrade” or “improvement” to begin with… they’re a step backwards, as far as i can tell.
The AR is the best weapon system available, and It’s going to be that way for a long time IMHO.
They are certainly nothing new EXCEPT for the manufacturing techniques to make them. HK has been making a polymer framed assault rifle for a while now (G36 series). Piston guns have been around for a long time. Hell we used piston guns in prior to WW2.
Like I said they are just another iteration of the over barrel piston assault rifle. There have been many before these 2, and many more will follow in the next 20-30 years. The AR is still a better choice given the modularity, parts selection, configurability, etc. Ive never found the piston argument to hold much credibility if any. DI has always worked just fine for me, and millions of other people.
Now where I think these systems, especially the SCAR, is in the 7.62 area. Ill be taking a good look at the SCAR-H carbine. I like the KAC EM but its nearly twice the cost as the SCAR-H, LaRue OBR is setup more for precision than a true battle rifle, LMT MWS looks pretty promising…REPR has had issues. I think the SCAR-H can be a competitive player in this market since there arent a whole lot of choices to begin with, and its at a pretty decent price point.