I noticed that some of the couch commandoes over on another 1911 forum are having a hissy fit over some remarks Larry Vickers made about the 1911.
Frankly, as usual, I think LAV is just speaking his mind and telling it like it is.
I love the classic 1911 too, but I think we can agree that handgun technology has made real progress and significant advances in the past 100 years.
Do you think LAV is “bashing” the 1911?
I don’t.
Linky no workie.
Oh, this is precious. 1911forum.com?
This happened on GlockTalk where there is a 1911 subforum.
Here’s the link.
I tend to think LAV’s remarks are being driven more by the shooters than the steel. No one is disputing that the 1911 is still a fine tool in competent hands, but there is an associated knowledge and maintenance burden associated with that, and we’re less and less inclined as a society to think in those terms. If you can get nearly the same results from an out-of-the-box polymer gun, then why bother with something that requires the extra effort and expense?
A 1911 shooter will tell you that those are burdens well worth carrying (and I am probably one of them), but I wouldn’t want to subject one to the kind of abuse that the typical G, P or M&P gun can tolerate as a matter of course. It’s not only the technology that has changed here; our mindset about what a sidearm can and should do has evolved as well. LAV calls it the way that he sees it, and I suspect he can describe the forest quite well while most of us are still admiring a few trees.
Is Vickers tired of 1911s? I doubt it. I think he’s just tired of the endless debates, and more concerned about pointing folks in the direction of hardware that will work consistently without any special measure of thought or dedication – and even the most die-hard 1911 aficianado ought to be able to appreciate that kind of hard-nosed pragmatism.
AC
From TOS thread:
All I know is I have 500 rounds through mine as of today, and not a single failure…period. Stock 7 round Brown mags and a variety of ammo.
Do that every weekend for a year straight then see which gun is still running.
Glocktalk. Home of the “other” retards.
Vickers has more BTDT experience with the 1911 then anyone on those forums, not even counting his extensive knowledge as a smith building them. End of the day however, Larry is a man O war, and to that end, always looks for the best tool for the job and knows pragmatism gets you home, sentimentality for a specific platform can get you killed. If anyone there has 1oth of LAVs experience and or knowledge, then perhaps they have some authority to speak on such matters. You will also note those with similar backgrounds to Larry, agree with him if you read their stuff.
Been a die hard 1911 shooter for a long time, but (1) when Larry speaks I tend to listen (2) things change no matter how much we wish they would not, and guns like the M&P are game changers (3) Larry simply told the facts/truth regarding the pros and cons (yes I said it, cons!) of the 1911.
Nothing more, nothing less, from Larry. For those who want smoke blown up their skirt regarding the 1911, or any weapons platform, Larry is not the guy to ask.
Anyone that would consider LAVs comments to be overly harsh is a whiny fan-boy with a wool hoodie.
Why do so many guys that buy 1911s because of their steel .45 manliness and combat track record break down to pouty snideness when someone (regardless of their expertise on the topic) implies that 1911s might not be the final word in pistol desings?
Fu€king get over it and go shoot your damn guns.
I do not think he is bashing it I think he is saying not all 1911s are good for all people. I remember when I droped my M9 and was like shit there is mud at on the end of the slide its going to jam and what happened I went through 2 mags with no issues. The only issue was my 6004 got rusted and I am glad I had some lube to get it fixed. It is funny how much people do not look at the system. Do my Sigs and my Berettas require more maintenence than the Glock yes but not too much. If he says something I will listen . Do I agree with everything he says no but I then look at myself and say is it just the way he says it or something I just do not agree with? Most of the time I find it is he is just blunt.
How may Glocks and M&Ps are going strong in former Special Operations and LE instructors that we take classes form?
What do threads like this accomplish? I’m being serious here. Threads like this pop up from time-to-time. Hell, there was a, “LAV said this and look at the reaction on GlockTalk” thread not that long ago. Most of us know exactly where a man like Vickers is coming from and why he says/writes certain things. So really, why do we care about what the unwashed on TOS or any of the “other” sites think about what he has to say?
They don’t know what they don’t know, it’s as simple as that and most of us know it.
Sorry but I’m not in to gun drama much so I don’t really care. Mr. Vicker’s opinions about the 1911 won’t affect my ownership, use or purchase of a 1911 in any way. 
This is now the second thread on the same subject here.
He is absolutely NOT bashing the 1911. He merely gives a realistic, no BS assessment on a pistol platform that has served well, but is past it’s prime, compared to more modern day platforms. My choice is the full sized M&P45. It is the most controllable and comfortable .45 bullet launcher I’ve ever fired.
If more people thought this way things would be much easier for them all around. There is nothing wrong with reading and absorbing the opinions of SMEs but ultimately it’s your money, your gun, and your life.
These were my thoughts exactly.
I commented on that thread that the 1911 forum on Glocktalk is really going down the toilet (in post #166). There are some good guys on there, but in the past couple of months, some people have started just running every thread into the ground with stupid stuff. I hardly even go there anymore.
Unfortunately, the decent guys there haven’t been calling out the jerks. And, its gotten out of hand. The comments on that thread at Glocktalk are uncalled for.
IMO there is a liiiiiittle bit of bashing going on… but deservedly so. The 1911 is almost completely obsolete, but we tend to cling to it for nostalgia’s sake. It’s like daily driving a highly modified car, when you think about it, it’s probably not the smartest idea and it’s only rewarding when it’s running.
There ya go. I just purchased two Nighthawk pistols, specifically one that makes 1911 purists freak out, i.e a double stack 9mm. I knew going full well it wouldn’t be the beat to hell and back reliability of a glock or M&P, but it’s a different platform with it’s specific strengths (ergonomics and trigger).
Best you can do is take the advice of SMEs, and then jump in. There are plenty of other platforms out there that are outdated, but still worth owning. As long as you acknowledge the real-world negatives, and plan for them, you won’t be shocked.
I just re-watched the Tactical Arms episode that LAV and Kyle Defoor did on the 1911. I must have missed all the “bashing”. At one point it was referred to as " the greatest combat handgun the world has ever known". They did state that it is not a platform for everyone. The truth hurts some people I guess. I swear, some guys would get less "pissy’ if somebody rudely insulted their wife/girlfriend right in front of them . Crazy! 