I know BCM is quite popular with many folks in the know. Personally I have not yet owned a BCM, but I do own some DD which have been great. And a guy at DD told me they are building 8,000 MK18 uppers for Uncle Sam, so it looks like they are able to meet a military specification.
So my question is whether a BCM rifle is any better than a DD, or vice versa, and why. Any differences in materials, manufacturing methods, specifications, testing, QC, or fit/finish that you know of?
I don’t really think you could go wrong with either…
DD:
* Upper Receiver: A4 Upper Receiver with M4 Feed Ramps * Barrel Characteristics: 10.3″ Cold Hammer Forged, 5.56 NATO Chamber, 1:7 Twist, Govt Profile, Carbine Gas Port, Chrome Lined, Mil Spec Heavy Phosphate Coated, HP and MPI tested * Bolt Carrier Group: F/A BCG, HP and MPI Tested, Shot Peened Bolt, Extractor Booster, Properly Staked Gas Key * Flash Hider: A2 Bird Cage Flash Hider * Sights: A1.5 Fixed Rear Sight * Rail System: RIS II MK18 * Low Profile Gas Block
BCM:
Features
* Cold Hammer Forged Barrels * M4 Feed Ramp Barrel Extension * M4 Feed Ramp Flat Top Receiver * T-Marked Upper Receivers * USGI 1/7 Twist Rates * USGI 5.56 NATO Chambers * Mil-Spec 11595E - Certified Barrel Steel (CMV) * Chrome Lined Bore and Chamber * Manganese Phosphate Barrel Finish * Mil-Spec F-Marked Forged Front Sights * USGI Government Profile Barrels * HPT (High Pressure Test) Barrels * MPI (Magnetic Particle Inspected) Barrels
BCM, DD, LMT… you can’t really go wrong with any of these as far as I can tell.
There are quite a few rock solid AR15 makers out there.
I dont think you can go wrong with either. Pick which logo you like more.
Flip a coin, it’s a win/win.
Daniel Defense, LMT, Noveske, BCM; can’t really go wrong. I personally prefer the DD M4; becuase of the weight (Lighter than any other M4 style rifle I have held, and speed/manuverability is important for me if I need to rely on this rifle to survive), the way it feels in my hands (Feels like it was ergonomically built specifically for me), and the customer service that DD offers; top notch. I have heard second hand of some complaints with some of the higher quality names customer service; DD has been a delight to deal with, and in this day and age of companies not even knowing what customer service is; that means quite a bit to me. The DD’s Magwell will seat any mag you can find; I have tried to find a problem mag for the rifle with no avail. I look at rifles/guns logistically; if SHTF, what desireable attributes do I require on my rifle; the DD M4 was the most complete rifle to my spec I could find, and a hell of a deal for what you get out-of-the-box. Pick the one that feels the best in your hands and you cannot go wrong.
Better yet, you could always buy both…
I agree.
Since when is DD using 11595E barrel steel? They’ve never really been clear on it.
Buy both.
Having said that, you can’t make a bad decision on either one.
Knowing what I know now after all the time spent here and other places researching build ideas if I started fresh today I would pick either DD or BCM for my build. I lean more towards DD for the flared magwell, looks like I might be building another SBR when Grant gets those in.
DD Doesn’t use 11595E steel technically; they use CHF 4150 Steel, which is almost exactly the same thing on a melecular level; and it passes the 11595E Military Spec. A bit of added vanadium and some added carbon are present in the “CMV” 11595E steel, but is is such a little increase over the CHF 4150; it is considered a wash. They are, for all intensive purposes, the exact same steel with two different names. A metalurgist can give you a more in depth answer. 4150 & CMV steel are both listed under the 11595E Spec. Even 4140 steel can sometimes be 11959E compliant, just depends on specific amounts of specific molecules.
I doubt even the most avid shooter could wear out a 4140 steel barrel let alone a 4150 or CMV barrel in any reasonable amount of time; you would have to make a good attempt to do so, and spend lots of money on ammo getting there!!! The steel we use in modern rifle manufacturing (WIth exceptiuon of junk manufacturers out there of course) is high tech and strong as hell; built to perforn and to last.
See here also for more info:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=37
11595, 4150, CMV, etc are barrel MATERIALS. Cold Hammer Forging is a MANUFACTURING PROCESS. Apples and Oranges.
Mix and Match. I have one, and waiting on a second DD Upper populated with BCM BCG’s and charging handles, wearing DD and Troy sights…
Especially in this case, choose an uppered barrel that meets your needs, then stuff it with spec parts of your choosing. It may be a frankengun, but an envy inducing one at that.
“Better” when you’re talking about rifles of this quality is a wholly subjective term, and as has been stated ad infinitum, you’re talking about the differences between two best-in-class market peers.
I would first buy a BCM for the extremely scientific reason that B precedes D in the dictionary.
I would then buy a DD on my next iteration – unless, of course, I didn’t already have one or more carbines produced by a company starting with C, in which case I would proceed more or less in order, until I had all three. A perfect trifecta!
AC
I like the way you think.
Thank goodness. I thought you were going to smoke me for skipping ArmaLite. =]
AC
No I’m going to let that slide. You did get 3 out of 4.
I’d have to know the relative gas port sizes before I could decide which one is better. See the fifth post here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=35931
I would go for BCM only for factory 11.5’’ SBR guns.
I think DD only makes 10.5’’ uppers.
So for ME
BCM > DD. For that reason alone.
However. In reality. BCM = DD.
Buy the cheaper one.
I really don’t think you can go wrong between the two.
ETA: Forgot to say, I went with BCM, just because of the amount of reviews and info I could find on the similar setup as I wanted to run, and it has proven reliable for quite a few top end people. USMC03, rob_s, Pat Rogers, part of their reviews is also what convinced me what I needed to go with, based off the data they presented.
That being said, my Dad who likes to buy the same guns I buy…
Bought a BCM Mildength AR today from the same dealer (G&R Tactical).
We’ve both got Mid Length BCM’s now… same model Buckmark .22’s, Dan Wesson CBOB’s, wait there’s more, my brother has a Mossberg 500, he bought a Mossberg 500. I told him I was thinking about buying an LCP, he bought one before me.
I love him, but it’s funny… I think I’m going to take a picture of them all together some day.
My Mom has an airweight S&W Revolver (I forget the model, and my parents are divorced, but anyway), I couldn’t remember the model and refused to tell him, he wanted to buy one of those.
I think I’m getting to the point I can’t tell him I’m buying a gun, because he will buy the exact same configuration and gun.