I live in a state that will not allow an SBR (lame) and like countless others, probably obsess over them more than is healthy. This is most likely the cause of my apparent “need” to have a 14.5" middy over a 16" middy.
The 14.5"
Is harder to get my hands on availability wise.
Needs to have the FH pinned
Needs to have the gas block installed prior to the FH pinning (from what I gather)
Will limit what kind of Rail system I can install/change out because of the pinned FH being mandatory.
Reduce velocity a little.
All this for a barrel that is an 1.5" shorter?
I’m currently drooling over this new Battlecomp brake. And plan on building a mid-length upper with one of these installed on it. Emphasis on “build”, because I would rather build it than order an assembled upper. Or a 75% assembled upper.
The only negative I can see about having a 16" bbl over a 14.5" bbl is catching the FH on a doorjamb while clearing my 1945 Cape Cod style bungalow ( 26" doorways). But really, I’m not using a rifle for my primary HD weapon anyway, as I have a nightstand pistol with weaponlight.
I am just a straight up civilian firearm enthusiast. Not LEO not MIL, so this rifle will most likely only have to prove itself in training and a SHTF scenario. Both of which should be completely manageable with another 1.5" of barrel.
I think my AR just wants to be something it is not.
I think I shall build a 16" middy.
Has anyone else fought this battle? What was the outcome?
While waiting for BCM to release their 14.5 upper with pinned fh, I decided to get their standard 16" middy.
I’m not totally certain on the muzzle devise I will end up with. This is the primary factor why I went with the 16".
The 14.5 is a nice option, it’s only 1.5" though. I’m on the large side so I don’t notice the difference. Plus the BCM 16" middy is one smooth shooter.
IMHO, the 16" middy is one of those “perfect” configurations, especially from BCM. I have two of their lightweight 16" and they rock.
Just from a civilian perspective, I think the 16" gives folks the greatest flexibility, especially if changing muzzle devices is needed or planned. Some of my guns have SF suppressor adapters, since we use suppressors for certain missions – but when I retire, I may want to install a different device, when I no longer care about suppressing the sound.
From a terminal ballistics perspective, the 16" also provides the extra 50-75 fps of muzzle velocity to increase the velocity threshhold I want to maximize 5.56 performance. 5.56 is sensitive to velocity, as once we drop below that 2,600 fps line, we see less and less fragmentation. Unfortunately, the primary reason for using a rifle in close quarters is precisely for the increased fragmentation.
While I understand the romance that attends the 5.56 SBR, ballistically, I have some concerns – as the muzzle gets more and more short, we start to achieve 9mm ballistics, with the increased noise and flash that comes with the 5.56 cartridge. Yes, there are good loads that may be paired with SBRs to make them more terminally effective.
Still, if I had to have just one AR carbine to use for as many purposes as possible, I would choose a 16" middy for maximum flexibility and performance.
The only reason I owned a pinned 14.5 barrel was to perfectly mirror my issued M4. I can tell a difference between a 14.5 barrel and a 16" barrel in recoil impulse and swing. Huge? No, but since I had the option I went with the perfect mirror. Unfortunately, I put a really good comp on the gun (PWS- so good that it was causing my performance with my issued gun to suffer), and had no feasable ability to change to an extended A2 comp.
As far as the handling with a 14.5 middie compared to a 16" middie I cannot comment other than that I find a 16" middie to be the epitome of versatility.
He’s got some excellent photos/measurements to show differences.
Also, ballistic data - effective frag range, velocity comparisons, etc.
Going with a 14.5" middy or carbine upper just takes a bit of pre-planning with regard to handguard, gas block, and muzzle device selection.
Pros: slightly more maneuverable without getting into SBR territory.
Cons: can’t play tinkertoys/legos/construx as easily once your muzzle device is permanently attached.
if you come to the next PNW event, you’ll likely see a number of permed 14.5s, and their owners.
you can still SBR in WA… you just have the leave the uppers with me.
14.5 is a great length… not too short, not too long… its the great “do everything” length, in my opinion. they’re “effective” out to 200m, which is about 180m longer than any civilian, LEO or not, is ever going to shoot people at… but not so short as to have to worry about reliability issues. getting in an out of vehicles is easier (still not nearly as easy as with a CQBR), and it’s the threshold for a most guys between doable and pain-in-the-ass for CQB. i can, for instance, turn completely around in a standard residential hallways with the weapon at high-ready with a 14.5, but cannot with a 16" gun + 1.5 of muzzle device. not that you do this- but it’s an example of the difference 1.5" can make.
and it’s not like you can’t take the muzzle device off- i’ve removed and re-permed a handful of 14.5s, and i’ve even repaired and re-used the muzzle devices.
It’s a great option if you’ve already owned an AR and know what you want out of a build.
If you’re using a fixed FSB but are open to rails going past the FSB, I’d look elsewhere (Then again, you can always have the FSB dremel-ed) If you’re decided on a fixed FSB and aren’t going to change, then go with the 14.5"
If you’re going with a railed forearm and a rail mounted sight, then go with the 14.5". There’s no reason not to unless you find yourself swapping muzzle devices left and right.
Really the only two downsides are:
Hard to change from fixed FSB to free-floating one piece handguards if not initially installed.
Hard to remove muzzle device.
That’s it.
The Positive’s?
Shorter
Lighter
Reliable gas systems (compared to SBR’s, not that that’s a consideration for you in particular)
So, as long as you know what kind of AR you want, then go with the 14.5"
This will not be my first AR. I pretty much know what I want( mid-length gas,brake/hider,10"+ freefloat that isn’t 2-piece) however, it has been my experience that as soon as I drop a paycheck on anything ( see: cellphone, bike,weed-whacker,gps,18-volt cordless kit, etc.) in about a months time, they come out with some new shit that blows whatever I just bought out of the water and becomes the new standard.
I guess what I long for is to keep the most versatile rifle platform, for lack of a better word … versatile.
You guys sure are good about getting me back on the fence. I must admit.
BKB: I’ll have fam in town on the 24th of July so I’ll most likely miss out. :mad:
i also live in a non free state and i have access to all the short barreled stuff i want at work. that being said i choose to run 16 inch barrels because of the versatility and the ballistic value of the 16. anything i can do with a 14.5 i can do with a 16 and if i get a wild hair up my ass i can swap optics and run a “recce” style setup if i so choose. just my opinion.
The other thing to consider is it really is not that much longer OAL when you compare the two. A 14.5" with a Vortex is 16.1" a 16" barrel with a stand. A2 is 17". So, is it really worth 1". That is for you to decide but, if you ever feel like trying a different muzzle option it is a pain in A-- to take off a perm. attached device vs. unscrewing the old one.
I had Addax out in CA custom build my 14.5 upper for me;
Vltor MUR-1A upper
Sabre 14.5 government profile bbl.
Pinned YHM Phantom Comp
12.0 DD Lite rails
Mid-length gas system.
I JUST slapped the Noveske lower on it last night, so it’s light, tight, and ready to go!
For a lightweight, home defense carbine, it was worth it to me! Even though PA is a Class III legal state, finding an LEO willing to sign off can be another story altogether (particularly if you live in one of the two blue anchors of the state… which I do :rolleyes:). I have a three story house WITH a full basement, so I have a LOT of stairwells to navigate. That’s why I like the 14.5.
Navigating my casa with a rifle (16 or 14.5) wouldn’t be optimal IMO. Whether holed up, or clearing.No shot in the house would be any longer than 20’ from my bedroom door,which is basically at a centrally located 6x6 hallway where all the doors to all the rooms of my house meet. This is however a rookies opinion and I am open to suggestions. Also, if I had a standard residential hallway to turn around in(which I don’t) to sweat off an inch of back fat would probably be a better longrun option for my fat a$$.
I agree with the above !!! I live behind enemy lines and my 14.4 is my 3rd AR ! I built a 14.5 mid because its what I really wanted & because I already have a 16 Carbine & a 18 inch Mid Length,it just seemed like the thing to do, I wanted a light,fast handling rifle so I opted for this setup,is it faster better handling than my 16 inch Carbine,probably,does it weight less,probably a little. I guess it boils down to,do you really want a 14.5,if ya need to be talked into it,then stay with a 16, As I like to say,"All my ARs are exactly the same,Only different,LOL:D Because of where I live I have A1 stocks on all and I have the same grip on them all,so the ergonomics are similar,but the difference is in the weight and handling dept !! So far I really like it and the trouble of dealing with the Perm MB or FS is just a fact of life for me,so I don’t let it enter into the decision factor. Its a fun,accurate rifle,as they say,Try it,you mite like it !!! Here is a quick pic of mine !! I have changed the grip out,this is a pic from a few weeks ago.
I prefer my 14.5 over my 16, it just feels better to me. If you have any mechanical ability it wont be a problem, you can drill and counter sink the FH of you choice and cut a pin. Some FHs come pre-drilled and include a pin, then all you have to do is drill the divot in the threads. Look in the phone book and find you a shop that does quality welding, preferably tig welding and have them cover the pin and hole. I have had the best luck with tig welding without filler. This leaves a slight depression over the hole and pin so it’s obvious if someone questions you. The tig welding doesn’t penetrate as deep, if done correctly, so removal is as easy as grinding the surface of the weld and extracting the pin(assuming you didn’t have to hammer the pin in when you installed it). Not a big deal, and if you do it right you can even use the FH again.
I am issued a Colt M4A1 which is my training weapon and have ten’s of thousands of rounds through it, if not more. However for duty I run a personally owned 16" Colt HBAR. My work is almost all up close stuff and I find no real difference in the 2 other than some accuracy, select fire, weight and a few other minor things. But for how the weapon runs and its maneuverability I find no real noticeable differences from differing barrel length of 1.5".
I will be switching out the 14.5 with a 10.5 so there will be a definite difference in handling after that.
In response to quiet Matts post, I was unaware that I could do the barrel pinning myself, or with the help of someone more qualified because I assumed ( I should know better than to EVER assume) that whatever 14.5 middy barrel I ended up purchasing would have to ship from the dealer with the FH permed. Correct me if I’m wrong- I can build the upper without the flash hider, but can not attach it to the lower until it is permed? This may be a game changer.
I have changed the grip out,this is a pic from a few weeks ago.