Is a Lower a Lower is a Lower?

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
1

I don’t have a lot of experience with a ton of different manufacturers’ Lowers.

I know that an AR lives and breathes thanks to a quality Upper. A lot of folks seem to say that Lowers don’t matter as much.

So is that the case or is there a list of top tier Lowers that one should prefer (kinda like Colt, BCM, DD for Uppers) for reliability/ruggedness when building a “bet your life” home defense AR?

Anything wrong with CMMG or other so-called “budget” lowers?

2

I think the biggest thing is that it HAS to be “In Spec”.

Another thing (for me) is that it has to have a quality LPK.

I dont know if youre referring to a complete factory lower or a stripped lower.

And even after that, lowers are inexpensive, that being said, I STILL wouldnt buy a low budget lower. Speaking for myself.

I know alot of guys that dont own Noveske, Colt, DD or BCM and dont have any problems with theirs.

3

I’ve used Stag stripped lowers because they were available at a good price from a local dealer that keeps them in stock. Never had a problem with any of them, I’d recommend putting in a good quality LPK and not worrying too much about what’s stamped on the lower. Other parts, I won’t touch anything that’s not from a quality reputable manufacturer, but a stripped lower in and of itself really just need to be in-spec.

4

I agree with that too.

I never understood the “saving money” thing on something that you trust your life with. It never made sense to me.

I wonder if rock climbers go with the “Budget brand” ropes and caribeeners.

I dont know about anyone else but I would prefer my defensive carbine NOT take a shit when I need it most.

5

BCMJunkie, I’m gonna expand a bit on what I said, to clarify my thinking. Before I bought a stripped lower, I searched around here a lot, looked a numerous threads, and a lot of Senior members and SME’s seemed to agree that if it was in spec the roll mark didn’t matter. Since my local dealer had the Stag’s in stock, and at a price that I couldn’t beat ordering from anywhere online, I went with that, and have had no issues. Understand that I’m not trying to argue with your point, just expanding what I posted earlier so that it’s clearer.

6

Are there manufacturers that certify their lowers to be “in spec”? And others that don’t?

I know anyone can produce one bad apple among thousands of their regular product, but who is known to always be “in spec”?

Or are you saying I need to take some calipers when buying a lower?

Thanks for the replies thus far.

7

Oh hey buddy not at all! I should have been more clear also.

I wasnt giving you shit at all. I would buy Stag, in fact I am buying a Stag for my Girl.

I was more reffering to Plumcrazy or Oly.

Sorry man lol

8

If you buy BCM I guarantee you have nothing to worry your pretty little head over.:smiley:

Noveske is the same. DD is awesome.

I would check out this forum cause there are lots of people that own Bushmaster lowers that are GTG. I used to own a BM lower. It was fine.

Check out Spikes also

9

Is there a consensus on Spike’s lowers?

10

I’ve hadled a lot of spikes lowers. Spikes lowers are good to go, low shelf, and high quality, with a really nice finish.

Thier forgings are Cerro and the machining is done by AO Precision manufacturing.

Good stuff.

11

I have one on the M4.

Its GTG.

12

I don’t know about a consensus, except that their CS sucks, and IIRC, the lied directly to some customers. One person could be responsible for a bad rep but…

That said, I have a spikes lower and it has given me zero problems. Some think it’s a good product. I do. But I don’t know if there will be any future purchases, after what I now know.

13

[QUOTE=fixit69;1117114]I don’t know about a consensus, except that their CS sucks, and IIRC, the lied directly to some customers. One person could be responsible for a bad rep but… QUOTE]

Really!?!?

That surprises me!

Sorry if you had a bad experience. I dont know how long ago it was, but the times I went through them, I talked to Angela and she was awesome.

All my Emails were a prompt reply, and they were super fast.

I went through them twice, about a year and year an a half ago.

Maybe it got bad or something.

14

Here are some aspects of lowers that I pay attention to:

  • Is it made by a reputable maker with a track record. You don’t HAVE to get lowers from only well known makers, but if you don’t, will you know what to look for? You know that lowers made by companies like Mega, Noveske, BCM, DD, and LMT will be in spec, you don’t necessarily know that about all lowers. Also I would avoid the whole ‘billet’ bandwagon. Nobody that I’ve seen has yet proven that billet lowers really give you any advantage, they only cost more and are heavier.
  • Who made the trigger? To me, the trigger is the most important aspect of the LPK. On a fighting gun, I’d either get a reputable LPK with a milspec trigger (like DD, or G&R), or get a LPK without the trigger (G&R offers these, also Rainier Arms offers a JP LPK) and then add something like a Geissele trigger.
  • Are there other features on the lower that are not REQUIRED, but that might be nice to have? Two extras that I like: a flared mag well (easier reloads), and a tensioning screw (Lets you reduce vertical play between upper and lower. Some play is fine, but just keeps things from rattling/wobbling too badly if there’s a lot of play.)
  • What upper will you be putting on the lower? Strangely, even with black guns, sometimes the “finish” between certain uppers and lowers doesn’t match well. This does not matter ultimately, it’s cosmetic, but you probably don’t want your expensive new rifle to look bad.

Bottom line: a quality lower from one of the above makers I listed will not cost you much more than a “budget” lower, and can save you a TON of headaches because you’ll know pretty much everything is milspec and “right” to begin with. I would avoid “budget” and no-name lowers, just me. It isn’t worth it just to save $20 here and there, when ultimately, you’re going to have a lot more invested in the rifle so you want it to run right.

15

Angela is awesome. She helped me out with a group buy for another forum on lowers. They came out great. much better than another company who shall remain nameless because I don’t even like uttering their name.

16

I had to replace my Spike’s lower due to one of the trigger guard ears snapping. I’m not sure how it happened, but it was a big deal for me.

I went with a Noveske flared lower for my first “true” lower build. I wanted a good lower that wasn’t going to break easily and have be the “one” for defense. That sucker is a tank.

If it is your first one, and are skeptical on you skill level for a first build, by all means get one cheap and practice. If you are going to use that same lower for defense, run and gun and classes, I’d go something more reputable and to spec or better.

And don’t skimp on the lower parts kit either. I got a DD LPK at close to $60 new, so there are deals to be found out there.

17

I have to clarify, this was a thread I was reading some time ago. It stuck in my head for the simple reason I had one.

I personally did not have a bad experience.

I cant remember the thread, but as IIRC it was more than a couple of people. It gives me pause to buy because I respected the opinions of these people.

18

IME, magwells are were most issues show up.

Some are not machined properly and will not allow mags to drop when they should.

Some like to do trick things such as extensions and flares which then will not allow some aftermarket mags to fit.

19

If I am buying a complete lower: LMT, Noveske, BCM, Colt, DD are pretty much the only names I deal with. I know their QC is on point and I won’t have any issues. By buying a complete lower I am paying for the convenience of having it completely assembled. I am not going to pay that money to someone who won’t put as much effort into it as I would.

If I am building a lower, I stick to quality LPKs (from the brands mentioned above) and receiver extensions. As far as the actual lower receiver itself goes, I will get them from anyone who has a good reputation for being in spec. I own 2 Spikes, a Surplus Arms and Ammo, and a few other off the wall brands.

To expand on what I said, I don’t see the appeal to billet lowers that cost ~$300 stripped although several companies make quality billet receivers. (Larue comes to mind)

20

You haven’t heard about the Spikes fiasco with them raising prices during the elections, then blaming it on their distributors… who came out publicly stating that it was Spikes that raised prices and not them??

I just remember what I read when it all happened, so my details may be off a little, but you get the idea. I don’t like them as a company. Apparently their rifles are decent, but they have an “odd” following and they’re just not something with which I’d like to be associated. Right or wrong that’s how I feel about it.

As for the topic, no all lowers are not the same. You could have two lowers that came from the same forger. Each gets it’s final finishing according to the rifle manufacturer and now you have to different specs and completely different lowers.

A guy I know has had two RRA’s (didn’t learn the first time) that were way too tight. Another guy brought his RRA SBR’d lower and LMT upper by as he was having some issues. I put my KAC SR15 upper on it, which is loose on my KAC lowers, and I couldn’t close it enough to get the rear pin through.

Just 3 examples of RRA lowers I’ve seen being clearly out of spec. Not a lot, but enough for me to know I don’t want one. So, I spend the little extra for quality. If you really want to save, wait for one of those crazy PSA lower sales where they’re about $60 stripped. I can’t say I’ve ever even seen one, but the reviews so far seem decent.

Personally, I’ll spend the $200 (I think) for a stripped Noveske or the $290 and some change for a blemished complete BCM lower. I don’t want to buy something with the hope it’ll be what I want. I want to buy it once and have it ready to go.