Number 1
Number 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79CodjHFwVI&list=UUQN1DJNlSz3AlvY74jwflIg&feature=share
I pocket carry a KAHR P380 daily. I believe it would make somebody get off of me when they felt the stinging/burning.
I carry GDHP in one mag and FMJ in extra mag.
If you can carry something better (9mm) carry it. If you are somehow in that 1% of not being able to conceal a 9x19 in some circumstance than by all means carry 380acp. But understand it’s limitations. If you do, I recommend finding an FMJ that runs reliably in YOUR weapon.
Personally, as a primary, I think it is generally lacking. Not to say that .380 can’t do the job, as I have seen it put people down, and know people you have used it. I have also seen guys take multiple .45ACP and keep going. So first and last accuracy is key and you need to be able to put rounds on target where they need to go to stop the threat. However, on that same note, I don’t generally find most .380s to be accurate enough beyond close range distances when compared to what I generally carry and personally don’t like going below 9mm. Also up where I am at with the amount of layers a lot of people wear I don’t feel that a .380 may reliably get to vitals.
The second argument that I get putting forward the thoughts above is that most shootings take place at close range under X distance. My response is simply that I am not betting my life on an 80% chance that if I am in the 1% or less situation of having to use it that it is a single attacker under so many yards. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best and all that you know.
That said, if you feel secure with it rock on. I have known guys who are happy carrying NAA .22LR mini revolvers and thought me carrying a 9mm with a reload was excessive since I had more than 3X the rounds before I had to reload. Also have run into guys who thought I was insane carrying a 9mm pussy round since it wouldn’t stop a squirrel and anything below .45ACP was useless and that they carried a .44magnum because it was always a one shot kill. :rolleyes:
On a last note, having spoke to a man who has used a .380 in a defensive situation, shooting the other guy in the teeth appears to be rather effective.
Pick good ammo and be prepared for a for a follow-up shot.
It’s the only reasonable caliber I can comfortably conceal.
Check out Post # 4 of following link:
A thin modern day car door?..I have a .17 caliber pellet pistol that will shoot right through one. A melon?..I remember making rubber band powered sling shots that would launch a rock clean through a watermelon.
In comparison to standard service calibers…it absolutely does suck. It is not capable of being loaded with a bullet with a decent sectional density rating…thus why is it has very poor penetration characteristics. Particularly against laminated glass. 9mm or .38spl is the way to go in a subcompact. A cartridge that performs well and fits in a .380 sized gun can be done, but no one has marketed one. Idealy, a high pressure .30-.32 caliber bullet with a 110gr-115gr JHP traveling at least 900fps.
I have actually seen some very accurate .380s like mauser hsc’s. I think it is owed to the fixed barrel.
My niece went through a stupid stage in her life at 17. Parents got divorced she decided to get back at them. Was dating a guy who was an ex star football player who was dealing Oxycontin. In Gadsden, Al he gets into it with a gangster. Gangster pulls a stolen .380, her boyfriend jumps in the car and yells drive. She turns and the gangster shoots through the back window (three feet from the window). Bullet hits her in the face at the corner of her left nose nostril, goes through the roof of her mouth, stops next to her jugular. She floors the gas, gangster still shooting, she drives the wrong way down highway 431 for a mile to a gas station dodging traffic. Jumps out of the car, runs into the restroom, splashes her face with water and feels the hole. Surgeons at UAB would not take the bullet out, afraid they would kill her. Two years later she thought she had strep throat, gargling with salt water she spits out blood and the bullet. It went through her tonsils not the hole it made. Surgeon at UAB said in 20 years he had never seen that. She showed me the bullet, it was a HP dark looking(probably because of corrosion) maybe a Winchester design.
I retired my West German Walther PPK/s from carrying after that. Typically carry a 9mm or 40S&W.
Oh yes, gangster was caught and got 20 years in the state prison.
My niece has her act together now, works for AT&T and lives a normal life. Only has a small scar by her nose from the bullet wound. Had braces and surgery. Still says she has headaches when the weather changes but she is good considering.
Why carry .380 when it does not have higher capacity than 9mm, and most .380 now have a 9mm variant that is hardly any bigger if that.
I have one .380 an H&K HK4, its .380. with a .22lr barrel and mag as well. Cool gun, nothing I ever carry, and barely shoot.
My Khar PM9 is smaller, more powerful, more comfortable to shoot and more accurate, with the same recoil. It also shoots all of the thousands of rounds of 9mm I have around for my 6 9mm pistols.
But to answer your question directly yes it is inadequate by comparison to other guns of the same dimensions.
^Holy f**k…glad it worked out!
I have also always wondered the merits of the .380. I looked up the energy each round produced and on the chart I saw the .380 “out performed” the .38. Ans I’m very confident in my .38, so I’m starting to play with the idea of a .380 for the ole lady.
sent from my secure, NSA proof satellite uplink.
.380 is what I carry when I can’t carry a gun.
As soon as I finish typing this out, I’m off to the store to pick up my new 9mm Shield. The Shield will fill many of the roles that my .380 fills now (esp. on duty backup to my G17 or 19), but I still see a reason to keep my Bodyguard around. It’s a nice gym/jogging/pocket carry gun.
As for why not carry something else of comparable size? Since I carry under LEOSA, my department can say what I can and can’t carry. This may change shortly, but keep in mind for some people, there are other regulations in play.
Uhhh…no. A .380 is not in the same realm as a .38spl. Typical .38spl loads of 110gr-135gr rival those in 9mm. The .38spl 135gr+P Gold Dot out of a 4" service revolver will meet all of the FBI protocol tests including penetrating up to 12" after passing through a windshield. Virtually ALL .380acp loads will only penetrate up to 4" in gel after passing through a windshield. More and more vehicles now days are using laminated class on all of their windows, not just he windshield. Do you plan on shooting through laminated glass?..maybe, maybe not. However, the FBI tests represent different levels of stresses a bullet can undergo during a potential gun fight…many of which cannot be predicted ahead of time. Do you want to carry something that has clearly failed a time tested self defense standard, or do you want to at least take the precaution of meeting that standard before you have throw down?
Some reading on the .380acp and other BUG sized guns:
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4336-BUG-s-380-ACP-vs-38-Sp
Gotcha…like I said, that info was from some chart I found via Google awhile back.
My guess was the lighter weight bullet coupled with a higher pressure cartridge is how the .380 could even be on the same playing field as the .38…again, nothing gospel here, just something I read somewhere.
sent from my secure, NSA proof satellite uplink.
Wasn’t that cop in Orlando using a .380 when he killed the guy at the theater last month?
I recall a Detroit cop being killed by some guy w/ a .380 around 2008. So, yes, like all small flying metal projectiles, it can work. But there are better choices.
I totally agree, but the threads about em, so I thought I’d check that info I read “once upon a time.”
I carry a G17 cut to accept G19 mags and I use a Carry Clip instead of a holster as I’m a skinny little s**t and it’s hard to hide any gun/holster on me.
sent from my secure, NSA proof satellite uplink.
The problem with the .380 is that it cannot use longer bullets, which also have a higher sectional density rating:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume4/number1/toc.htm
Couple that with the .380’s low velocity, and you get the worst of both worlds.
Generally you need either high velocity, or high sectional density in order for a bullet to punch through barriers well and penetrate deeply after a JHP has expanded. The .38spl is relatively low velocity, but it is capable of using a very high sectional density bullet. The 9mm on the other hand is able to do BOTH…which is why it is a superior caliber to both. You just can’t make the .380 fast enough, and you cannot load it with a higher sectional density bullet in order to make up for its shortcomings. By all accounts, it is a dead end cartridge.
Even with a 9 or .40 it is all about shot placement.
I am 8 weeks and a day out from being shot in the chest at near contact distance with a 115 gr JHP 9mm. Shot hit me about 3" right and an inch high of my solar plexus. it hit me close to center mass and defected slightly downward. Summary of damage: Broken rib (#7), nicked pericardial sac, collapsed left lung, perforated diaphragm, perforated stomach, perforated liver, perforated intestine. The bullet is at rest near my spine and surgeons left it in as they felt going after it was not worth the risk and further damage. My diaphragm wouldn’t drop and my left lung collapsed, so breathing was very difficult, but I was not, and I repeat not incapacitated. In hindsight, the exploratory abdominal surgery (full on laparotomy) is what is taking so long to recover.
That is precisely why I stated most. 
I have seen Sig 238s and Khars that shot very accurately. Also got to shoot an LCP that I was holding groups pretty decent when I did very slow fire. The issue was that with a Glock 26 I could keep the same size group at the same distance as that LCP and put two to three rounds in the same time.
Also, while we are on the topic. The CZ model 83 is supposed to hold groups well. Also, the Beretta 84 is also considered to be very accurate by a friend of mine who at one point did carry one. Of course he has carried damn near everything except for a Desert Eagle and an 8 inch barrel revolver.
Even with a .45acp, it is all about shot placement. Some OISs in the last 5 years:
Officer Keith Borders shooting: Officer scored 6 torso hits on perp with 200gr .45acp+P Gold Dots, but it took a well placed head shot to stop the guy from shooting back.
Officer Tim Gramins shooting: Officer scored 17 total hits on perp with 230gr .45acp HSTs, including 4 torso hits, but it took head shots to stop him as well.
Officer Randy Seitz shooting: Officer scored 7 torso hits on perp with 230gr .45acp Gold Dots through a windshield, but it took another 5 minutes before the perp stopped returning fire and bleed out.
Those three are available for a detailed read on Law Officer. There are a number of 9mm and .40S&W shootings that have similar degrees of failure/success that I have been privy to over the years from Texas DPS, Colorado HP, and Florida HP. Including a high number of failures to stop quickly from .45acps and .40S&Ws. Handguns poke holes…so the size of the hole punch is not as important as how deep it punches.