Iraq gets very little attention these days. Is that a good thing? Is Iraq a US success, or at least what passes for a success in the ME? Apparently, tourists are returning:
Iraq has a relatively functional government that is somewhat friendly to us. Certainly it is considerably more of a success than Afghanistan was.
Having said that, Iâm not sure Iâm signing up for any tours of Iraq anytime soon (in fact EVER!).
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Other than Israel, the ME holds no interest for me to visit.
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Iraq turned out not terrible. Theyâre rebuilding. I wouldnât call it a vacation spot, but a lot of people do travel there, mostly from elsewhere in the ME. Mostly ShiâaâŚ.thereâs some holy sites for them.
There is a lot of cool shit to see.
They def donât do DEI, at all. They do have gun stores. People largely have good manners. The roads are anarchy, but not as much so as sub-Saharan Africa. There are militias. Eggs are cheap.
Are they better off than they were in 2002? Or 1990? Thatâs a much harder question.
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I donât think itâs a hard question, of course they were better off before we unjustly invaded them lol.
I canât remember who wrote it, perhaps it was Will Durant, but a historian from the early 20th century observed that the Assyrians were so incomprehensibly brutal that they broke the people of the Middle East to be slaves to strong men and dictators in perpetuity.
After being there for only a few months I had to wholeheartedly agree. Some people are fit only for chains, Iâd say most people in this world are unfit for what we would call âfreedomâ.
They were better off with Saddam.
My friends and I participated in an unjust invasion of a sovereign nation that was a reliable US ally in that region against the Iranians.
We killed tens of thousands of innocents and lost our brothers for literally nothing but MIC profits.
â War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.â
-Smedly Butler
Yes, Itâs been 20 fucking years and Iâm still mad about it.
Edit: And now, after our humiliation in Iraq and Afghanistan, seeing âAmericansâ baying for blood in foreign wars, angrily protesting to get more involved in foreign quagmires, WTF is wrong with us???
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I can agree that war is a racket, but not with your assessment of the Iraqi people. Spending time there as an occupying force, you donât really get to know much about them.
I was there, too. Many times in the 2000s, and practically lived there in the early 2010s, between trips to Afg and Bragg.
The power vacuum we created, just or otherwise, certainly led to ongoing problems. And corruption persists. With the toppling of Saddam came Islamic Extremism, also. And the Iranian influence Saddam kept out (hand in hand with previous sentence) is now ever-present. Such is the alignment of some of the militias I mentioned. Iranian influence is no bueno. At least from the perspective of US interests.
Theyâre people, like you and I. They want full bellies, clean water, and a safe place to raise their kids.
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One of the most interesting things Iâve seen there post-war/post-daesh was an international book fair. It was freaking huge. Closest thing Iâve seen to it in the States is big regional gun shows. So many books. On one end of the joint there was a techbro lecturing on a stage. Hotdogs and shit up front. Outside was a live violinist, all kinds of statues and art people were taking selfies with (theyâre gay for selfies) delicious-smelling foodtrucks, and little stands selling toys and shit for kids.
There was definitely tourism associated with thatâŚmuch of the ME countries were represented.
Hereâs some random photos:
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If they could really tighten up security, Iâd go back. Iâd visit cities and grid coordinates that me and my unit fought in. Believe it or not, there are some beautiful locations in Iraq⌠probably the coolest thing I got to see was the Temple of Babylon. The hanging gardens are amazing⌠and the scenes over the Euphrates are epic.
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EuphratesâŚâŚyou do Ramadi?
I think Iraq is as close to a win as could realistically be expected. Itâs up to them now. I agree with everything 1168 said. I was part of a Hummint team and like to BS. I spent time with the Jundies and Iraqi locals some. They are pretty much just like us. However due to the Iraq history their tribal structure holds them together much better than if circumstances were the same here. I am in touch with our translator, who is now a US citizen but was a local national then. 1168s pictures are similar to some he sent me several years ago. Absolutely amazing. My BCT was at Ramadi 05-06 and the Ramadi pics I saw a year ago blew my hair back. I was at Habbiniyah but made it into our sister battalions AO up Michigan and Nova a time or two. The scenery next to the Euphrates was beautiful but the Euphrates itself I remember as pretty nasty. All the poo ran to it. I mean nothing better than the lovely smell of Khaldiyah in the early morning. Sorry for spelling and typos! I donât type well on my phone!
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[quote=âGrendelshooter, post:5, topic:485323â]
My friends and I participated in an unjust invasion of a sovereign nation that was a reliable US ally in that region against the Iranians.
We killed tens of thousands of innocents and lost our brothers for literally nothing but MIC profits.[/quote]
First, thank you for your service. Iâm going to have to disagree regarding it being an unjust invasion of a sovereign nation that was a reliable US ally. In fact, Iraq had invaded Kuwait, lost the war and agreed to terms of surrender. Bill Klinton allowed them to violate the terms of surrender. Among other things, the Iraqi air force flew where they were not allowed, didnât allow inspections and failed to cease hostilities against others within the country. Had the terms of surrender been enforced, the war in Iraq almost certainly wouldnât have taken place. When a county violates the terms of a surrender that they agreed to, they are subject to invasion. Enter 9/11, a new President and largely incorrect information regarding the number of weapons of mass destruction. Saddam Hussein decided to pretend that he had these weapons of mass destruction. The new President wasnât going to take a chance at another 9/11 and decided to enforce the terms of surrender. Looking back at it, our intelligence agencies got fooled. If the inspectors had been there, that most likely wouldnât have happened. Klinton is the one that didnât enforce the terms of surrender, so in my book the responsibility for the consequences falls at his feet.
In regard to innocents getting killed, that of course unfortunately happens in war. However, the fact is that the US military took great efforts to avoid civilian deaths and did better job of it than any other country in the history of modern warfare.
I think that in general if you look back at wars, youâll almost always determine that it wasnât worth it. This is because there are almost always future factors that were unknown at the time that would have changed the course of history to make the results of the war less relevant. For example, the Civil War largely took place to eliminate slavery. Over 700,000 people died. Was it worth it knowing that slavery would have ended in a few decades anyway? My point here is that you have to look at war in the context of the time that it took place.
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I donât think we got fooled. WE GOT FUCKED ! by netanyahu who came here and swore that Saddam had Nukes and WMD. He went on to say that if the USA does not attack Iraq ,it would be a grave mistake and cause another 9/11 https://youtube.com/shorts/33vOBjMpXTo?si=58T5MZ_vLsBmAyux
It wasnât only Netanyahu. They needed the help of the NEOCONS ( bought or blackmailed by AIPAC and mossad) They are the USEFUL IDIOTS that BIBI always talks about. How many American boys died and were maimed to fight the war for Israel?Most of all my cousin that I never got to meet.
We never found the Wal Mart-sized, super-duper warehouses full of WMDâs that the public probably expected. I am convinced they had something spread around in different locations (some of those caches were found, donât care about the âexpiration dateâ excuse); the majority were flown out to Syria in stripped-out airliners.
I was doing a sleep study on a retiring Infantry SGM, maybe 2009-2010? His unit in Iraq (101st) was hit with an IED that consisted of several 155mm shells, one of which was a nerve agent. He doubted the insurgents knew exactly what they were rigging, probably just saw a 155 shell and said âGrab that one too Achmedâ. Since it wasnât fired from an artillery piece, the binary agents didnât mix like they were supposed to. He said a couple of his guys âDid the funky chickenâ. Fortunately they still had chem kits in their Hummers (early in OIF, after the initial invasion was over) which had the auto-injectors. The guys were evacâd and ended up making it.
Long story short? Saddam had some shit we classify as âWMDâsâ. So he was indeed guilty as charged. Was it necessary? 4K+ American lives later I sure as hell hope so.
A lot of those Cold War era chemical WMDâs wound up in Syria via Iraq as well. I have no doubt some were used in the Syrian war and Iâd bet money there are still some floating around in the region.
But thatâs not the âWMDâsâ Rumsfeld & crew were using to scare America into war with Iraq. Those were nukes, and they were vaporware. What resulted was far worse for Israel and the entire region than Saddam ever was. He was evil to be sure, but he kept the even more evil people in check.
The road to hell is indeed paved with good intentions.
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I think in this case it was paved with Haliburton profits.
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Twenty years ago I had no problem supporting our government and believing what they said. They have our country and us citizens best interests at heart, right? They wouldnât lie to us and definitely not do anything to hurt us. Sure, I bought into a few conspiracy theories but they were just that, conspiracy theories. Post Russia collusion hoax, Hunter laptop coverup and the Covid power grab and lies I am at the opposite end of the spectrum. Now I assume I am being lied to unless proven otherwise.
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Yes, in 04â, I was pulled (along with dozens of Marines from my Infantry BN) after our tour in OIF 1, as a combat replacementâŚWe were paired in fire-team and buddy-team elements, and dispersed to units who were taking casualties. I ended up with a Battalion that was based at Junction City RamadiâŚI wanna say it was an Army base (Big Red 1)⌠There were only a few Marine units occupying that base during 2004.
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â06, Shark Base. I remember standing on top of a palace one morning, watching Marines push through the city across the river. Looked rough.