Intro to reloading Q's

General Firearms Reloading & Ammunition
1

Ive got a nice little chunk of change that I can spend coming up in June. Ive been racking my brain, trying to figure out what gun I will buy next, but sadly realizing that I should probably drop a whole bunch of money on ammo. To me, buying ammo hurts because every round fired is money lost. Then I started thinking about getting into reloading, and the money it could save me over time.

Now, I generally only shoot 9mm, and .223. I realize that these are some of the most widely available rounds, and are generally cheap as well. So, the savings on reloading them will not be very big. Thats fine, over time it will pay off. What Im really interested in is the semi-self sufficiency of reloading. When ammo cant be found during shortages, when the prices shoot up, or when/if it is banned, I will still be able to crank out my own rounds. Thats a huge plus to me, and as a mild prepper, it seems like a better long term investment than the SBR I was going to buy.

Heres the thing, Ive read all the stickies, but I still dont understand reloading. I have a general idea of the equipment needed (see list below), but I’m not sure about case cutters, material seperators, crimpers, corn on the cob???, etc. Im sure that someone comes into this forum every few weeks with my same question, so to keep from constantly running for help here I am going to order Lymans Reloading Manual from Midway and read it before making any other purchases.

Right now, Im not too interested in how much the powder, bullets, primers etc cost, I just need to know if this setup is enought to get me going and last me a long time. I like to pay for quality items, so if I have listed something that is subpar, please let me know. I want to stick with one caliber at first while learning, and I think 9mm is the best for that.

Does this kit include all the necessary equipment to start reloading?

Do I need a case trimmer, or is it included in the dies?

What other necessities would you recommend?

Also, when ammo shortages are prevalent, do you guys see mass shortages of reloading equipment, or is the market still full and available?

Is it safe to reload in a bedroom that doesnt have the best ventilation?

Lyman Reloading Manual
Dillon 550B
Dillon Carbide 9mm Dies
Dillon Eliminator
Dillon Primer Flip Tray
Frankford Arsenal Tumbler Master Kit
Hornady Dial Caliper
1" bench wrench
4 pack of small tubes
550 spare parts
550 DVD
Total: $800

Thanks gents, if there are other threads that explicitly answer my question, please point me there way. Ive been here long enough to have some thick skin. The only thing Im afraid of…is reloading haha.

2

I would include a $6 lee case trimmer while you’re at it. It’s slow but will work with the little bit you should need it for pistol cases. I’m still using this model for .223, but know the pains for bulk reloading.

I would watch the youtube videos on set-up, then decide if you need the dvd. I say that even though I’m not mechanically inclined and did not buy the dvd. I still haven’t figured out why the priming system is not working. Huge fail on my part, but I’m not sure how in-depth the dvd goes into this. If anyone else has advice on this I’m all ears, or we could start a new thread.

I too bought it for the capacity to make my own, not huge cost savings. I lack the time to really care about the few dollars saved right now.

3

That is a good start. You’re not going to need a trimmer for 9MM but you will when you start loading for the .223. If you can swing the extra cash get an electronic scale.

Yes, when ammo get harder to fine and more expensive so do reloading components.

4

As far as a case trimmer, what is it and why do you need it? If you are trimming material from the case, doesnt that make it pretty much un-useable after 2-3 sessions?

I think I’ll go ahead and play it safe by buying the DVD. I am not scientifically or mechanically inclined. I like to read books haha.

5

It won’t actually save you any money. You’ll just shoot more…

Correct. If you want to calculate what it’ll cost to reload, and how soon the equipment will pay for itself, then it’s not hard to figure out…

It is.

Yes.

No.

During the rush in 2008-09 everybody ran out of powder and primers. Prices skyrocketed. On the other hand, I already had 10,000 primers, 8lbs of powder, and 4,000 .40 bullets, and I just kept reloading…

Like buying ammo in bulk, buy components in bulk (several years’ supply), and you shouldn’t have a problem.

I’ve never owned a manual… I have the little booklets from Dillon with load data, and I learned how to reload by watching a friend do it.

I’d recommend you find somebody local who will show you his set-up. Alternatively, there’s a LOT more info on reloading over at Brian Enos’ forum.

Electronic scales are expensive and touchy. I recommend a balance-beam scale. If you’re going to get an electronic, then there are cheaper/better choices than Dillon’s.

I never saw the need for a special wrench for reloading… a regular adjustable or open-end wrenches works fine.

Unless you want to load 500 primers at once, you only need one pick-up tube (which comes with the press).

The rest of your list just about covers it…

6

You don’t need to trim pistol cases.

A “material separator” is just a sieve to separate the cases from the “media” in which you tumbled them (to clean them).

A crimp die is usually part of a set of dies… I think Dillon’s dies seat the bullet and crimp in one step.

Corn cob “media” is chopped up old corn cobs. The alternative is “walnut,” which is chopped up old walnut shells. You tumble your cases in these, with a bit of polish, and it cleans them. Buy the media at Harbor Freight or the pet store…

7

The Dillon is actually one of the best there is due to the software inside and some other fine points missing on other scales (like multiple platform supports versus one to get a better reading on the pressure pad).

The Dillon scale is recommended by a lot of folks OUTSIDE of reloading due to its consistency.

However, there are definitely good electronic scales that are less expensive. But lots of less expensive ones suck as well so you want to research it well before buying an electronic if you go that route.

To start the Eliminator scale is a good beam scale made by OHAUS and uses all the same parts except the body casting as the RCBS 505 scale which is 10-30$ more.

I never saw the need for a special wrench for reloading… a regular adjustable or open-end wrenches works fine.

The Dillon bench wrench is much easier to use than adjustable or open ended wrenches for adjusting die lock rings. A 1" wrench open ended is usually too fat to fit in between dies to tighten lock rings.

on the other hand, the other end (the small close end) on the bench wrench can easily be replaced by a normal wrench. (That adjusts the powder measure). It is a small ticket item and is a “nice to have” but not essential.

Unless you want to load 500 primers at once, you only need one pick-up tube (which comes with the press).

The rest of your list just about covers it…

Extra tubes are one of those “nice to haves” but agreed, not in any way essential.

Essential:

press, conversion, dies, primer flip tray, caliper, scale, and you should have a reloading manual. The first part in any manual is a generic primer on reloading and a good way to get a good background.

A vibratory case cleaner makes cleaning cases easier but is not necessary for someone on a budget. (There are low budget ways to clean cases).

For a cleaning kit, I would look at the Cabelas kit that contains the Tumbler 400 (Green cablela’s model). Midsouth Shooters Supply also sells the Tumbler 400 (don’t know if they have a kit) in their own color private label for a good price. Both are made by Berry’s Manufacturing and are the same as the blue Tumbler 400 Berry’s sells AFAIK. I am not really partial to the Frankford one for some reason and personally would look at the berry’s one (in Cabelas or Mid South form as it is cheaper).

Get a simple “hammer” type bullet puller as well. You’ll end up using it…

Without the case cleaning kit, you can consider $600-$650

8

no

Dillon has separate seater and crimp dies, which is the preferred method of doing it on a progressive. Easier to set up and people claim you get more consistent results.

Bigger reason to use Dillon (or other dies made for a progressive) is the “radiused” mouths the dies have which makes things work better in a progressive…

Corn cob “media” is chopped up old corn cobs. The alternative is “walnut,” which is chopped up old walnut shells. You tumble your cases in these, with a bit of polish, and it cleans them. Buy the media at Harbor Freight or the pet store…

Best place to get walnut media is at a sand blasting supply house. Much cheaper than the pet store. I pay less than $20 for a 50 pound bag of clean 12/20 or 20/40 walnut. Expect a price of $18-$25 depending on where you are. Go to a real sand blasting supply house that sells all the various grits and materials for sand blasting in large bulk, not like Home Depot and stuff which usually carry one or two sorts of grit in one size.

9

LowSpeed HighDrag… I was in your shoes just weeks ago. I have already made most of my purchases (the essentials) and have already reloaded some .223 :cool: Its a whole new world and hobby in itself. I also passed up on a new AR to get setup and have no regrets thus far.

10

I agree with this entirely. I have the Eliminator, and it’s great.

Sorry about my other post: I was confused and thought that the “Eliminator” was the digital/electronic scale…

AFAIK, Dillon’s digital scale is made by somebody else, and sold elsewhere without the Dillon name for less…

And FWIW, Harbor Freight sells cheap tumblers.

11

The Dillon D-Terminator Electronic Scale is made by CED. CED sells (or used to sell) the same scale under their own name OUTSIDE the US. In the US it is a Dillon Exclusive.

CED also sells other models of electronic scale inside the US under their own name.

I know the owner of CED and he put me in contact with their scale lead designer once and I got the low down on what made the Dillon (CED) scale what it is. A large part of it is better software running the scale. For example, trickling on a digital scale is a difficult thing to do right (the scale by design wants to clamp down on a single value – which value keeps changing). CED worked hard to improve that part of the software, so, while it is still a difficult thing to do right, the CED scale tends to work better with trickling, for example. It also has better internal components than many other scales, and for example, uses 4 pressure points for the load sensor instead of just one, which is what most scales have. This leads to greater consistency.

There are other brands of electronic scales that are also very good. But they also tend to be similar in price. Very few of the cheap ones are consistently going to do the job and be within an acceptable accuracy.

Nothing beats a good magnetically dampened beam scale for cost effectiveness and they usually do as good a job in the accuracy department when used correctly. They are just slower.

And FWIW, Harbor Freight sells cheap tumblers.

You mean like this?

I think I’d rather have this:

or

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas-Model-400-Case-Tumbler/731767.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Dtumbler%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts&Ntt=tumbler&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas-Model-400-Case-Tumbler-Kit/731769.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Dtumbler%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts&Ntt=tumbler&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products

or

http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14546-c8-g8-b0-p0-400_Tumbler.aspx

http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14545-c8-g8-b0-p0-Rotary_Brass_Cleaning_Kit.aspx

(Berrys ships their own stuff for free so compare shipped cost when comparing prices between these guys)

(no, your eyes do not deceive you – all the same tumbler as sold by various people under their own names with the original maker being Berrys. I am not sure if the warranty / guaranty is the same for all of them though. The mid south claims the same warranty as Berrys offers on their own version)

Not trying to pick on you Bimmer. I’d just rather have the Tumbler 400 with a 3 year motor, lifetime plastic warranty rather than a generic Harbor Freight model with 90 warranty.

(I am not a dealer for any of these products though at one time I did sell the Berry’s model – I discontinued that for business reasons, not technical or quality reasons – never had one complaint about them over the many years I sold them)

12

No problem. I just noticed the tumblers the last time I was at HF, and I figured that they’re usually pretty competitive on price…

FWIW, my 15-year-old “Midway” branded tumbler looks exactly like the HF model. It still works well, despite a lot of abuse.

13

My Midway brand tumbler from around 94 looks similar as well. It still works fine though is quite loud. I have a Dillon FL2000 (CV-2001 with their older motor manufacturer, who went TU or something and so they came out with a new model) and so stopped using the Midway one that often. It (the midway one) is much louder than any other one I have used… But it still works and gets used once in a while!

14

While we’re on the topic of tumblers…

Could I use one like this to wet tumble with stainless steel media?

http://www.harborfreight.com/18-lb-vibratory-bowl-with-liquid-drain-hose-96923.html

It holds as much as the Thumler, costs significantly less, and looks like it would be more durable (I hear about the Thumler drums’ seals wearing out, and rust forming inside the rubber lining).

15

I will claim ignorance on this. However, the rotating “tumblers” work on a different principle than the vibrating ones do (media “falling” with the brass instead of brass worming its way around due to vibrations) so I am not sure that it would work as well for that sort of thing. (I have never done the wet tumbling with SS media though I have several customers who swear by it for their precision loads)

I am not sure I would want to be the test case to try this out.

ETA: was looking at rock tumblers for my son. Lortone makes some “commercial” grade ones with either multiple 12lb barrels or a 20lb barrel. We are talking $400+ but if you are serious about the SS media cleaning, they will probably last forever compared to more hobbyist grade ones…

16

I’m gonna recommend you go with a custom die setup. Having loaded 9mm with Dillon dies and the setup recommended on Enos Forums, I can tell you that it’s a much better setup.

Start with an EGW undersized 9mm die, of course the Dillon powder die (comes with your new machine, not the die set), Then the Hornady New Dimension 9mm seating die (it has a floating seating stem that seats on the bullet ogive, rather than the tip), finish it off with a Lee Factory Crimp die. This will give you consistent, accurate ammo with a lower reject rate than the Dillon set.

Another must if you’re loading more than 100 rounds at a time is the aluminum roller handle. It significantly reduces fatigue, plus it’s a trick looking part. :slight_smile: Depending on your bench setup, the strong mount and bullet tray are nice additions as well. Anything that reduces fatigue will improve your loading experience.

As for case trimming, you’ll never need to trim pistol cases. You’ll literally split the necks from work hardening or loose them before they stretch enough to be a problem.

For .223 & 5.56 cases, even with mild loads you’re only going to get 8-10 loads per case. However, the necks will stretch and you’ll run into problems after just a few loadings. You’ll definitely want a case trimmer for those. Any case trimmer will work, but you’ll need to size first, then trim, inside and outside deburr. If you plan to do LARGE batches of .223/5.56, the king of all case trimmers is the Giraud power trimmer. It’s stupid expensive, but once you’ve used one you’ll never go back. It trims, inside and outside deburrs in about a half second per case, and they come out perfect each time. I laugh when I see people spend for a Dillon power primer tube filler because it’s tedious, but make do with a manual or clunky power trimmer, when for just a little more they could have a Giraud. It works so well, you’ll want to trim brass for your friends, but instead, charge them to come use it and it’ll help pay for itself. :slight_smile:

So long as you use good reloading techniques, reloading in a spare bedroom is fine. When I was competing heavily, I had my lead levels checked frequently. No issues except when I was shooting a lot of lead in revolvers, particularly indoors. That was from the shooting, not the reloading. Set you tumbler up in the garage though, it puts off a lot of dust.

For a bench I just use a massive Steelcase desk I picked up for $25 at a yard sale. It works perfect with my office chair set at the top of the height adjustment, plus the desk holds a lot of crap.

17

The roller handle is steep in price, so it would really have to be justified. Is it better for people who sit while reloading or who stand?

Also, on average, how many times are you reusing pistol cases?

As far as a trimmer, I’ll have to write that one down in my log here. It will be a purchase as soon as I start loading .223 for sure. But that it a long way off.

Glad to see its not only fun to get into, but realtively trouble free. I realize there will be a large learning curve, but Ive still got 4.5 months to read some manuals before I even press “buy” on anything.

I appreciate all this info! I saw that you had recommended Brian Enos in another thread, and after checking him out he recommended the Dillon Die Set for the same reasons. It seems like a good investment.

Brian Enos had also recommended the Eliminator has a good for starters scale. I try to keep electronics out of most of my firearms stuff, so I like the idea of this scale as long as I can get accurate readings.

Would you complain about having more tubes or is it better to just not even buy more?

In your experience, is the Berry’s tumbler a good investment and good quality?

So, the initial start up investment into reloading should also factor in supplies bought in bulk, with expensive cases being something that I wont need to buy for another 2-3 times of reloading. Thats troubling to see that reloading supplies are just as in demand as ammo, but youre right, buying in bulk will solve that problem.

And yes, I think I will end up shooting more…alot more.

After discussing this with my wife over email she is overwhelmed by the data I threw at her, but she supports it.

18

Yes, the “start up” is rather staggering — buying components in bulk, you may be looking a $500 or more — but that’s probably enough load several thousand rounds of ammo and amortize the equipment.

I generally try to keep “stocked,” so that when I open the last 5,000 package of primers, it’s time to buy more, and when I open the last 4lbs of powder, then it’s time to buy more (I buy alkaline batteries at Costco the same way).

And I don’t usually buy empty cases — I just buy brass cased ammo and make empty cases!

Really, if you have friends who shoot the same cartridges and don’t reload, they don’t usually mind if you take their cases…

19

It is just better all around. However, it can be added at any time so if you are not sold on the idea or have a budget, add it to your Birthday/Christmas/Valentines/Anniversary list and add it in at a later date.

And, personally, I prefer the plastic gripped version myself. The handles are identical except the grip. The plastic grip is not exactly round – more like a really bulged triangle, which fits your knuckles better. But for those of us in colder climbs (CO for example), the “soft” non brittle plastic holds your hand warmth better so reloading stuff in a cold basement does not feel as cold on your hands. (Interesting to notice that Dillon puts the plastic grip version on the 1050). It is also a few dollars less than the aluminum version.

I appreciate all this info! I saw that you had recommended Brian Enos in another thread, and after checking him out he recommended the Dillon Die Set for the same reasons. It seems like a good investment.

I am not sure I would have recommended Enos since he is a competitor :stuck_out_tongue: , but there is nothing wrong with Enos and his forums have good info

The only “issue” with the Dillon dies is that their sizing die, when using the glock fired brass that bulges out a bit more than normal, does not quite size all the way down. So if using glock fired brass (or unknown once fired brass), I use the Lee Factory Crimp die with the Dillon sizing and Dillon seating dies.

Brian Enos had also recommended the Eliminator has a good for starters scale. I try to keep electronics out of most of my firearms stuff, so I like the idea of this scale as long as I can get accurate readings.

no worries

Would you complain about having more tubes or is it better to just not even buy more?

I used more tubes so that I can load them all up to start so I am not refilling tubes ever 100 rds. But it was a convenience and not a necessity. You can add them in later. [Now I finally, after 10 years of hesitation, got the Dillon primer filler. Definitely something you can do without! but also quite nice]

So, if you have a strict budget, get the tubes later. However, if it doesn’t break the budget, you are probably going to be glad for the tubes. Depends a lot on your reloading routine.

In your experience, is the Berry’s tumbler a good investment and good quality?

I used to sell them and never had any complaints or returns or anything. I have, however, never used one personally. They seem well built. (I stopped selling them for business reasons, not because of the product itself. If business circumstances had not changed I would still be selling them)

With regards to cases. I buy once fired brass (plus my own pickups). You can get bulk once fired brass for not a lot of money. Make sure you pick your own up and if you attend a training, you can get a LOT of cases as most guys at trainings won’t care about the brass…

20

[QUOTE=chadbag;1213484So if using glock fired brass (or unknown once fired brass), I use the Lee Factory Crimp die with the Dillon sizing and Dillon seating dies.[/QUOTE]

Do you mean that you use the Lee sizing die with the Dillon seating and crimping dies? Not sure how the crimp die would help with the bulge.