Internet Gun Forum TRUTHS...

[C4IGrant]

@SteyrAUG

And that is why my pistol club is installing drywall so we can shoot 5.56mm.

I don’t mean to be intentionally dismissive. It’s just that I remember training with some LFI guys who stressed cover vs. concealment and that ducking behind the corner of your average interior wall is not cover.

They went so far as to construct a corner wall (two short walls coming together) behind which they mostly concealed a steel target. Shooters then practiced shooting the “mostly concealed” target through the drywall corner.

Not once did 9mm or .223 fail to penetrate all the way through both sheets of drywall and hit the steel target behind it. Several rounds of both gouged out big chunks of 2x4 as well before striking the steel target.

And IF .223 did reliably fragment on drywall I’d seriously not want to use it because a bad guy IS gonna duck behind the corner and I still want to be able to shoot him.

Now I believe it “can” happen, I’ve even seen 9mm fragment from time to time. I just don’t think either do it automatically or reliably.

I personally think the FBI “materials test” was set up to produce a specific set of results that would allow them to transition to a rifle caliber carbine that they wanted in the first place.

I don’t think anyone believes that .223/5.56 fragments within the first two layers of dry wall.

If you look at the below chart, 77gr ammo starts to fragment in under 9 inches.

If you look at this below chart, you will notice that 9mm NEVER fragments and penetrates well over 12 inches. So the question you have to ask is if it safer to hit a friendly with a PIECE of a 55, 75 or 77gr bullet or a solid 115, 124 or 147gr bullet? The answer is pretty simple to me and is why most EVERY SWAT team across the country has gotten away from MP5’s, Subguns, etc.

C4

[Palmguy]

@SteyrAUG

Well sure, if you are willing the change the context from which they were offered.

I fail to see why that is such a problem. It’s not as if there is some monolithic internet firearms forum constituency that universally subscribes to the points listed in the OP as described (quite the contrary in fact, particularly here). And that’s not even mentioning the fact that some of these points are intentionally left without the context that usually clarifies the opinion in order to make the intended point (for example, JW’s elaboration on point 4 to discuss the geometry of the particular firearms mentioned with respect to concealability of a thin semi-auto compared to a similar overall size and weight wheelgun).

[CarlosDJackal]

@SteyrAUG

The last part is the issue I was addressing. There are some Kool Aid drinkers out there who swear 5.56 will always fragment upon contact with drywall, 2x4s and even sliding glass doors under the right conditions. Shooting 9mm indoors will always kill the neighbors cat and the friction of it penetrating walls will burn your home down.

Just like some swear that their favorite brand of firearms could not possibly fail because they had absolutely no problem with the first 20-rounds they put through them. Some even swear to the fact that just because their firearms bear certain letters or names that they are perfect the way they are and can never malfunction.

In general and based on ACTUAL TESTING and ACTUAL INCIDENTS, pistols and pistol-caliber subguns tend to perforate more interior walls than .223/5.56 bullets. But just like anything, this is situation dependent.

I have also seen .223/5.56 bullets punch right through steel that a .308/7.62 would not. But that doesn’t mean it happens in every instance against every sampling of steel.

[Littlelebowski]

@SteyrAUG

My P13 is reliable as any other 1911. I love my Glocks, doesn’t make my P13 work less reliably however.

I’ve seen a few of those things fail and heard quite a few similar reports. My brother has one - the finish is air soluble and the weapon needed lots of tuning.

[SteyrAUG]

@Littlelebowski

I’ve seen a few of those things fail and heard quite a few similar reports. My brother has one - the finish is air soluble and the weapon needed lots of tuning.

Maybe I got lucky, I polished the feed ramp on mine and it’s been failure free for about 10 years.

[Littlelebowski]

Yeah, it certainly seems to be a trend with these guns but I could be wrong. I know that my brother went through all hell with his.

[SteyrAUG]

@Palmguy

I fail to see why that is such a problem. It’s not as if there is some monolithic internet firearms forum constituency that universally subscribes to the points listed in the OP as described (quite the contrary in fact, particularly here). And that’s not even mentioning the fact that some of these points are intentionally left without the context that usually clarifies the opinion in order to make the intended point (for example, JW’s elaboration on point 4 to discuss the geometry of the particular firearms mentioned with respect to concealability of a thin semi-auto compared to a similar overall size and weight wheelgun).

Actually a LOT of communities have sacred cows and kool aid. That is one of the reasons this forum exists.

[SteyrAUG]

@Littlelebowski

Yeah, it certainly seems to be a trend with these guns but I could be wrong. I know that my brother went through all hell with his.

Wouldn’t be the first time I saw a picky 1911 with issues. I’m sure if I tried to feed mine wadcutters or certain reloads I could make it choke.