I live in Colorado and am thinking about taking more training on the carbine. I wanted feedback on “Valhalla” in Telluride regarding the quality of instruction, the instructors, and carbine courses before making any plans.
Wasn’t this school associated with Lewis Awerbuck at one time? He isn’t mentioned.
Any help is appreciated.
Tack
Doubtful that Louie would ever be associated with them.
I understand that you have to check your weapons in at the gate.
If you are looking for training in CO, inquire of Jeff carpenter, known as USMC03 on several forums (including here).
Jeff is a real deal guy and a detective in Pueblo West who hosts a number of outside trainers at Pueblo West.
Hope this helps.
Thanks Pat!
Tack
Impression based solely on seeing them on Personal Defense TV on the Outdoor Channel:
Save your money, they’re idiots.
Again, this impression is based solely on seeing them on Self Defense TV. It’s entirely possible the segments editing could have made the instructor look like an idiot.
Obviously that’s an assumption… I was just there on an invite to help teach an SF unit… just like all good ranges they put safety first, but myself and everyone else walked right in with our guns…
As far a Rob Pincus’s teaching methods? I would say anyone could learn something from that guy, he is a phenomenal instructor due to his never ending and extensive research on defensive shooting and has great podium skills. I enjoyed his outlook on warrior mindset Incorporated into training. Also its a great scenario based training platform.
Now…just off my first impression… but I would recommend the combat focus training to anyone.
Sheesh… I thought I saw all the episodes on PDTV that I was on… I need to call Gresham and get him to send me the one they edited to make me look like an idiot. That is just the kind of stuff that annoys someone who is busy trying to spread important information to people who can’t afford to justify the time and expense of coming to a high end school. Of course, it is easier to just post unsubstantiated opinions on the internet to get access to an audience… maybe I should try that???:rolleyes: .
Seriously, Todd, check out our website and newsletter and let me know what you are interested in. If nothing else, I can supply you with plenty of student feedback about our programs. I just got done with a two day Carbine course in Switzerland and teaching Carbine for 3 days at SWAT Round-up down in FLorida… based on the last month, when I get back to the officer next week, I am officially changing the course name for our 2 day defensive carbine to “Combat Focus Carbine” because of the popularity of the CFS program right now. The fact is that the principles are all the same, with obvious modifications to accommodate the long gun.
Kilo,
I’d love to hear what, specifically, prompted you to make the statement. Student feedback is an important part of program development and I like to hear the backgrounds and explanations for offhanded comments such as the one you made.
Travis,
Thanks for the clarification… and the kind words.
The gun checking deal is for the resort that is owned by the same person as VTC… some of our students choose to stay there while they train at VTC. Students at VTC, as noted, can drive right to the building with their gear. I’ve never quite figured out why this is such an issue… you’d think all people shooting during courses would be a clue. Some people enjoy laboring in ignorance instead of confronting reality, embracing it and moving forward.
As for Louie, I consider him a friend and we both write for SWAT Mag, but he has never been associated with Valhalla.
-RJP
Rob:
Since you brought it up, why does the resort require people to check their guns? Something like that would be a deal-breaker for me even if I was given the run of the place free of charge.
This is a sincere question, by the way. I am not one of your detractors or other person with an axe to grind. I’m just curious.
Rhino,
Understood… I don’t really want to hijack this thread, but here is one review someone posted awhile back about their experience at BOTH VTC and EMR:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207923&highlight=elk+mountain+resort.
Here’s another review:
http://www.imakenews.com/valhalla/e_article000517781.cfm?x=b11,0,w
Also, Kevin Davis and Mike Detty have written excellent articles in the past about the relationship between the two entities from the perspective of the tactical trainer (Tactical Response and G&W for LE, respectively).
Some people would rather stay in Montrose, which is fine by us… but most students compromise “guns in rooms” for convenience and quality (historically including most of the SF and NSW crews, btw… even the military that stay in town usually choose to secure their weapons at VTC).
I’ve gone to some length in the past on various forums to explain the situation to detail level. I don’t mind doing it again, but I’m on my way out of the hotel in a few minutes.
The bottom line is that EMR and VTC are separate companies. Saying that you wouldn’t train at VTC because EMR doesn’t let you take guns to your room is about the same to me as saying that you won’t fly to Colorado to train at VTC because commercial airlines wont let you take your gun on the plane. I fly commercial all the time (kinda have to), I can’t afford to live in a fantasy world where I can only support businesses that do things “my way”.
Again, I’m open to a more in depth discussion, but we should do it in another thread. I was addressing it, because it was brought up by another poster…The fact is that it shouldn’t have been brought up in a thread about TRAINING, with the original question being about " the quality of instruction, the instructors, and carbine courses before making any plans."
Todd,
First of all, good on you for doing your research.
I would strongly encourage you to go take CFS at Valhalla. I do not make such recommendations lightly.
As the owner of a training company myself, I look at all training I attend with a critical eye. My BS filter is finely tuned. In September of this year I attended Combat Focus Shooting at Valhalla.
I found Mr. Pincus to be one of the two or three best instructors with whom I have ever had the pleasure to train. Part of the reason he is so “controversial” is that he really thinks each tactical problem through, then works up a simple solution. His intelectual honesty combined with Valhalla’s unbeleavable facility allow him to test solutions under near scientific conditions.
Having said all that, I know Valhalla does not have all the answers, nor did they claim to when I was there. Valhalla has but one piece of the warrior puzzle you should be trying to build. It will be worth your time.
When I attended CFS, I stayed at the Elk Mountain Resort, where Valhalla is co-located. The resort is truly 5 star. That being said, the resort and the school are not the same company. It is a EMR policy to check your guns, not Valhalla. If it is that much heartburn for you, stay in Montrose and drive right to the school with your guns.
I will be going back for some more training with Mr. Pincus next year.
Anyway, thats just the opinion of one of Valhalla’s competitors. Take it for what it’s worth.
John ,
I had the chance to train with LMSdefense in August. Great experience. I value your opinion after having spent some time with your instructors.
Thanks
Hey, Chappy… nice to see another familiar face over here… Thanks for adding your perspective.
For those of you who may be interested in hearing more from our programs, I invite you to check the Combat Focus Podcast… the second episode was just uploaded today. The Podcast features audio excerpts from courses.
Mr. Pincus, I recently purchased and read your book Combat Focus Shooting.
I liked it… a lot. Its simplicity is a virtue. It resonates. (read: no BS)
I am not ex-military, or law enforcement, and have absolutely no real world credentials. Never shot anybody, and hope I don’t have to. I am just a guy who has hunted & shot all his life and am serious about it. Serious enough I study it. And serious enough about defense of life that I have decided to be a sheepdog, not a sheep.
I for one buy into the “work with the body, don’t fight it and listen to intuition” that you and Tony Blauer and Col. Grossman and De Becker and Siddle and even Fairbairn to a degree, all seem to arrive at from somewhat different directions.
I have not had the privilege to attend one of your classes…but you are on my list. My list is short.
Stay safe.
Dittos on Valhalla.
First of all, it is a many Viking name!
Secondly, I looked at the web site. Everyone’s credentials seem to be on the up-and-up. So I am pretty DAM sure that there is plenty that they can teach 95% of the US population.
Third, I have seen them on Self Defense TV and I purchased their videos through the Second Amendment Foundation. I think everything was pretty good for introductory instruction. I am showing it to all of my siblings (at least 6 of them). I would like KiloSierra to point out what he thinks is so stupid. Obviously I missed something.
Fourth, some day I hope to go to Valhalla and plan to bring my future wife too. Keep up the good work Rob! Hope to meet you in person some day.
I have no knowldge of or comment on VTC but I do have a comment on the “checking your guns” policy of the resort. I agree this is idiotic but why not take a “don’t tell” position? When they ask if you are armed or have guns to check, just reply “no” and go about your business. I do this all the time, in all sorts of places, and have yet to be caught. I mean, what’s the worst they could do if they caught you? Shoot you in the back of the head? Ask you to leave?
First, who are you agreeing with? No one on this thread has said that the resorts (not Valhalla’s) policy is “Idiotic”.
Actually, you could be arrested for non-compliance of a personal property owners, or businesses “Right” to not have anyone on their property with a weapon. Even businesses and commercial stores have this “Right” to legally make this requirement even in a CCW state, like Colorado where I live. I travel a lot to other CCW states and have seen this requirement on the front of several businesses like Costco, and Walmart. Again, if you violate this policy, you are breaking the law.
As far as “lying” to not get “Caught”…so much for integrity.
Again, if you violate this policy, you are breaking the law.
Unless you’re in FL. Then you’re just breaking policy.
It realy depends on the state you’re in whether the signs carry the force of law.
With that said, If I didn’t like their policy I wouldn’t stay there the choice is up to the individual.
Right…And the arrest would be for “Trespassing” and only if you don’t leave after being asked to, which is pretty much all the store can do.
Very true, but why would a person not leave if asked? I never understood that insistance to stay where they weren’t wanted.
Sorry to hijack
As opposed to disarming yourself and possibly regretting it later? There is something to be said about not being a slave to the absolute. IMHO, there are shades of gray in life.
I posted earlier as CMPM14NM but just had Grant change my user name for unrelated reasons.
I’ve carried a badge of one variety or another for 10 years now (local, state, and federal) and I can tell you that you are absolutely not breaking the law by not following a resorts posted “rules”. These are private policys not law. As stated by someone else, they can make you leave their property but they can’t arrest you. If you refuse to leave or cause a disturbance, they can call the police and they can arrest you but that has nothing to do with carrying or possessing a weapon.
Wow, we should never break the rules or lie? What Disney world does that work in? For example:
“We’re hunting some run away slaves. Have you seen them?”
“Are you hiding any Jews in your basement? How about your neighbors?”
“We’ve just banned “assault rifles”. Do you have any here in your house? Do you know if any of your neighbors have any?”
“You wanna buy crack from me? You’re not a cop are you?”
Wouldn’t a lie be justified in any of those last 4 circumstances?
Your right to own, carry, and use firearms is God given. Period. No institution, private or public, can take that right away unless you bow down and let them…