I subscribe to a lot of ammo testing channels on youtube, I always like to see what performance people are getting from different ammo makers. When I checked today a new video from Buffman was up, I like his videos because he always posts the results in the description. Here is the video-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6dw73p2To8
Here is what he got from a 16" barreled Stag with Independence 5.56 xm193i in case you don’t want to watch-
From a 16" barrel that stuff is really moving. I wonder what I’d get from a 20"? 3400 fps? Hell, I’ve seen people get damn close to the same fps as the 10" Yugo from a 16" barreled AR. I saw some of this on sale but passed, now I’m glad I did. I wonder how fast a 5.56 proof load is?
I just pulled down 500 rounds of this stuff and dropped the charge weight from 26.9 grains to 25.3 grains. It’s loaded retarded hot. I heard about a contact with Federal where they’re starting to play stupid about taking responsibility for the guns this ammo has blown up.
When I called and asked if they had problems with my lot numbers they played dumb. Acted like they never heard of a problem with this stuff. So that doesn’t surprise me.
I wonder what powder they use? My 55 gr reloads out of my 20" are always between 3150 and 3200, when I saw it was a 16" getting those velocities I couldn’t believe they were loaded that hot. The people in the comments section think it’s great? I wonder if someone did the math and found that a recall would cost more than the potential lawsuits?
Could you tell what powder they were using? If not was it ball or stick powder?
In the video he got a 26.2 gr charge weight and it looks to be spherical powder, but it could be short cut stick.
I almost forgot, he stated that it was 53 degrees outside during his testing. I wonder what he would get at 100 degrees?
Going by your spread it looks like the Independence lost 37 fps per inch from a 20" to 16" barrel. His 16" average of 3242 fps was higher than yours by 47 fps even though the temp was virtually the same. I wish I knew when both were loaded, was it in the same year, month, week, etc.? He’s getting almost the exact same average with the Indy M193 with a 16" barrel (3242 fps) as you are getting with Fed LC14 XM193 out of a 20" (3244 fps). I’ll be warning the guys at work away from this stuff for sure.
Ball for sure. Probably not Canister grade, but likely something along the lines of H335. 500 dented and damaged cases… Looks like shipping damage… so I can’t 100% blame the manufacturer/QC.
I have some really badly dented cases I want to chrono to see if major dents increase pressure/velocity.
Ran another hundred rounds of this stuff without incident. Also ran 100 of the Federal AE556 stuff at 100 and 200 meters. No popped primers, no major POI shift at either distance. Maybe a 2" shift in windage. Ejection was the same pile for both. Both 4 MOA on average at both distances.
Far from scientific but there was no discernible difference.
The high for XM193 was 3115 fps while the Indy was 3276, I’m glad he did another vid using xm193 with the same AR. It comes out to 161 fps faster on the high end and the two lows came out 148 fps faster for the Indy. That averages out to a 154.5 fps difference between xm193 and the Indy out of the same 16" barrel on the high and low. Overall average is 141 fps higher for the Indy. I’ve heard over and over that XM193 is loaded too hot. If that’s the case, shooting Indy is what I would call dangerous. Unless they put it on sale for $4 a box or less so I could pull them apart and download them I’m going to stay the hell away.
What powder does Federal use for the XM193? Is it the same as Winchester 748? The powder charge for the XM193 he measured at 27.6 gr, the only powder listed that high is BL-C(2), Hodgdon lists it at a 27.5 gr max?
I ran a similar test with my Sig 16" bbl with a 1/7 twist. The problem with Independence seems to be lot to lot variance. If memory serves, one of the guys in the other thread saw 3300 fps out of his with his Independence. And I wonder if buffman’s chamber is 5.56 or slightly undersized. Is Stag one of the manufacturers that’s been found to have out of spec chambers? I’m not familiar with them at all.
Independence 5.56 - 8 Shots - 3033 AVG. - Lot # FC12K001-001
3014
3002 - LO
3053
3056 - HI
3039
3033
3044
3030
Federal XM193 Brown Box - 9 Shots - 3023 AVG.
3039
3015 - LO
3043 - HI
3018
3027
3018
3023
3039
3003
Happy Friday All,
Quite a while ago my Family bought a few thousand rounds of Independence 5.56, box clearly states made in Israel. After now reading many posts can someone tell me if they have had any negative or excessive pressures from these lots:
FC14E001-114 and FC14D001-108
This was bought purely for stashing and has not even been taken out of the cardboard 500 round packs.
I’ve taken one apart before due to a popped primer issue that had my bolt stuck. can’t remember what kind of powder was used. I believe it was ball. But what surprised me was how much powder was in there. Thing was packed to the rim!