Allright. I know this is a gun forum with carbine in the title, but I think the shotgun is getting short shrift around here. I think the shotgun is probably better than a carbine, especially a non-NFA/SBR carbine for your average citizen. Hear me out.
Flat out, 00 buckshot can’t be beat at home defense distances. Unless you are a Trump, you aren’t going to be taking shots more than 30 feet-25 yards max. At these distances no handgun or carbine can even touch 00 buck in terms of stopping power.
Armor. I know folks usually say that shotguns are at a disadvantage against armored targets–but I am not so sure. Let’s just say you are crouched behind your bed waiting for an armored bad-guy to come into your bedroom. When he comes in and you dump 9 pellets into him what are the odds of NONE of the pellets hitting his neck, arms, face hands, firearm, etc? Barring a bullet-proof riot shield I would say very low. Combine that with the fact that you will surely be delivering an additional treat within a second or so to the stunned recipient of 9 .32 caliber projectiles, wadding, flash, blast etc I suspect you are at an advantage even if he has a carbine or handgun.
If you do happen to venture out into the open with your scattergun, it isn’t like 00 buck is harmless at 100 yards. It is still lethal and at the very least capable of delivering gruesome wounds at that range. And I would suspect that under stress the odds of making contact with a few of 9 buckshot pellets is greater than you making contact with a .223. Obviously .223 is more lethal at that range than an individual pellet, but a hit is better than a miss.
Shotguns are extremely cheap. I picked up a used Wingmaster riot gun for less than $300. I just sold my USED Colt AR with Aimpoint for $2300.
Shotgun ammo is ALWAYS around. The gun world seems to be in a panic buying mode every 6-8 months about something or another. You know what is always on the shelf? Shotgun shells and 30-06.
A 12 gauge slug will kill a Grizzly bear. A .223 will notify him that his next meal has arrived unless it is being fired with 50 friends from a SAW.
It is easier to hit a moving target with a 12 gauge than a rifle.
:ph34r:
I agree a shotgun can’t be beat for versatility and lethality at close range. I had the same thoughts concerning engaging armor. Aim for their groin and legs.
Even with light body armor, I would think the KE of a close range hit with 00 would put them flat on their ass, knock the wind out of them and possibly crack a rib or two. I’d be willing to bet it’d set them back enough for you to put a follow up shot or two in areas that will cause massive bleeding.
I am a big SG fan. I find that more and more I grab the 870 when getting out of the truck and doing something, rather than the M4. That said, I have a Benelli M4 that I love. I took it to a SG specific class last year, and had a ball. It now wears a painted R1 optic; perfect for a SG.
if barricaded in a room, waiting for the bg to come to you, yeah, shotgun rules.
most other cases like shooting through cars or walls, i want my ak.
ar for distances over 50 yds
I have an 870 in the bedroom along with my carbine. My first response is to grab the rifle but would have no qualms about using the shotgun. The fact that shotguns are not viewed as evil is a plus in the current political enviornment. I’m not sure about hitting the moving target, think that all comes down to training, and considering the fact that recoil is higher with a shotgun and mag capacity is limited, I take the ar15 first. The versatility of a quality shotgun is hard to beat though.
Agree with what you have written. The chief liabilities of shotguns in my opinion are increased recoil over a 223. No biggee for me, but my wife is pretty small. Additionally its not a weapon system for a long drawn out fight. Now clearly thats an edge scenario, but its worth considering.
My shotgun is a saiga and I use 8 round russian mags. That mitigates the reloading somewhat.
Using standard 00 in an IC bore at normal room distances, a 00 pattern will be about the size of your open hand. Using FliteControl 00, the pattern will be about the size of a tightly closed fist. So, assuming POA of center mass, no, there are not likely to be peripheral hits.
I prefer a shotgun inside 25 meters and a carbine at distances of 25 meters to 200 meters. If a shotgun was not a good tool, the military would not still be using them.
Several years ago, I patterned every brand and load of “tactical” 00 on the market at the time. I did this at 3, 7, 10, 15, 25, and 40 yards. I really wish that I’d saved the targets and taken photos…
Edit to post made, fixed the part number. LE132 OO, not LE127 OO. Adding a post only because it was quoted.
On the topic of extended distance with SGs, buckshot specifically…
During a shotgun range session a few years ago, I set up at 100yds with what I thought was a box of slugs. I fired five and marched back to check my hits. Finding none, I quickly realized what had happened.
Holding down the target stand was an ammo can with several boxes of rounds. Looking at it more closely, I found an entrance hole on one side, and an exit on the other. The stuff in between had obviously been struck too.
While full ammo cans are not people, that single 00B pellet had enough energy to get through the can. I suspect it would have injured a fleshier target quite handily.
My modified 11-87 Premiere has become my favorite long gun. It shoots the LE 132 9-pellet, FC 00 buck and LE 127RS reduced recoil loads like they were made for it. When more punch is needed, Brenneke Green Lightening Short Field Magnum slugs answer the call, that according to DocGKR, outperform 5.56 when intermediate barriers are involved.
While my 11-87 still punishes the shoulder far more than a 5.56 carbine, it is not intolerable. And as Dave_M points out in this thread, the typical “hunting shotgun” is far less likely to draw the attention of the uninformed general public than any AR (which, sadly, is IMO an important point to consider these days).
