I’ve ordered a MK12 upper from Centurion Arms and I am building the lower and gathering other parts and accessories while waiting for it to be completed.
What do you consider to be the ideal optic for a MK12? Do not limit yourself to what the military is actually using. I am looking for the best scope for this rifle taking into consideration weight, magnification range, etc, and what is appropriate for what this rifle was designed to do. I will use it for 100 to 600 yards bullseyes and plinking. If I get good enough, I may enter some sniper competitions with it.
How important is a front focal plane reticule for this type of usage?
Here’s my list so far in no particular order:
US Optics SN3-1002 1.8-10 x 37mm JNG MOA Illumin. 24oz
IOR 2-12 x 36 SPARTAN 35mm Tactical Illuminated MP-8 Dot or CQB Reticule 24oz
I recommend the same optics but in the configuration you have listed above. I like this optic becuase for the money its tough as nails, clear, and not as heavy as some other scopes for the same amount of money or more. The zero stop feature for the NF’s is awesome. If you ever get lost on dial ins or for some reason your knobs get turned you never have to worry about trying to find your zero and wasting time that could be spent sending those rounds downrange improving your skills. I don’t personally care for the mil-dot, even though NF’s have see through holes it still obscures the target for me at longer ranges, 400 yards an so on. The the lines I feel I can range things better. Just my $.02 I just received my SPR build, (BCM upper,18’’ Krieger barrelw/1.7:7 twist, RRA lower, and McCormick single stage) I’m going to get a Leupold 3.5-10 TMR. I want a nightofrce but funds dont allow it right now. It would be about 600 bucks more, and I need that for school. The TMR reticle is pretty nice though.
Timely topic for me also I’ll follow this with interest, although at this time I’m looking at a custom reticle for my purposes.
Here’s the outline, I’d like to see comments. This is my problem statement form a now slightlydated article (The SAM-R and MK-12 have merged and I believe are using Night Force optics):
Leupold Mark 4 MR/T Riflescopes:
Leupold Mark 4 MR/T’s are most commonly found on the SOCOM MK12 SPRs and the USMC’s SAM-R (and the M110 SASS). The selection of this optic reflects an operational employment different from the Army. The Marine Corp’s standard optic is the ACOG, unlike the Army’s M68. With that in mind, a higher-powered scope such as the 2.5-8X MR/T for the SAM-R makes sense. Unlike the ACOG, the MR/T is typically used by extremely well trained Designated Marksman. It is a specialized optic that is not well suited to close combat work, but extremely good at intermediate range work. Its higher magnification allows for more precise target selection and to some extent improved target detection. Depending on the reticle, range finding, and ballistic hold over’s, the MR/T will require more advanced training than either the Trijicon or Aimpoint (M68).
For a reticle I’m looking for a middle ground solution. 2.5 x 8ish or 3.5x10 front focal with a ranging reticle/Bullet drop compensator (BDC) like the ACOG. Simple is the name of the game. Average soldiers/shooters will not train enough on how to MIL out the range and then dope their hold overs or elevation turns. A front focal scope would allow for the BDC to be used no matter the magnification.
DAYLIGHT SCOPE FOR M14 rifle
Solicitation Number: W91CRB09R0067
Agency: Department of the Army
Office: U. S. Army Materiel Command
The U.S. Research, Development and Engineering Command Contracting Center (RDECOMACC) has a requirement for a Daylight Scope for the M14 Rifle in support of the Rapid Equipping Force.
Contracting Office Address:
RDECOM Acquisition Center - Aberdeen, ATTN: AMSSB-ACC-A, 4118 Susquehanna Avenue, Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD 21005-3013"
I run this optic on my SPR-type build. Its the first FFP optic I’ve used, and the ability to range objects at any magnification is a real advantage to me. The MP-8 reticle is based on the mil-dot system, so if thats what you’re used to, the transition should not be difficult . It uses hash marks instead of the circles.
Once you use FFP reticles though, you’ll probably really like it.
For the ranges you described, the -10x should more than suffice. It is longer/heavier than the Nightforce you have on your list (which I also looked at), but I was able to get the IOR on sale so I couldn’t pass it up.
You also mentioned the IOR with the 35mm tube. That one will limit your mounting options a little bit.
Thanks. Yes, that helps. So, it sounds like the advantages of the IOR are the FFP and the greater light gathering of the 42mm objective vs. the lighter weight of the Night force.
I’ll probably go for a LaRue mount, so I think that does eliminate the 35mm tube.
Any other scopes I should be considering? Is there a practical limit to the length of scope I can put on this rifle? Looks like the military uses lightweight scopes ~16-18oz. Would a 21-25oz scope defeat the purpose of a light sniper rifle?
family of three revolutionary new ballistic reticles, designed
specifically for the hunter, is now available with our 2.5-10 x 32 and
2.5-10 x 24 scopes. Elevation lines are marked in 100-yard intervals to
600 yards (as well as 50-yard increments between 300 and 600 yards).
Windage compensation is marked in 5 and 10 mph increments.
Each reticle is tailored to low-, medium- or high-velocity cartridges,
providing a precise, accurate bullet drop reference for virtually any
hunting caliber. Simple and highly effective, our new “smart” reticle
system is up to twice as fast as traditional rangefinding reticles.
Determine your zero, and there is no need for a drop chart, turret
adjustments or other complicated calculations.
I can’t estimate range, but i think it meets my other requirements for in scope hold overs out to 600 for 5.56mm (green tip or MK-262 reticles availible).
Scopes do not “gather” light. They merely transmit it.
When choosing an optic, there are some important things to consider:
-Time of day it will be mostly shot
-Range the rifle will be shot
-Trajectory of the cartridge/internal travel necessary to meet desired range
-What positions the rifle will be shot from, ie supported, unsupported, etc.
-Whether or not the reticle will be used to compensate from range or you will dial-in the dope
If shooting beyond 200 yards, having a parallax correction is very desirable whether it is an AO or a SF. That is the major downfall to the 2.5-10x NF NXS series.
If shooting multiple positions or carrying the rifle, heavy optics are very undesirable.
30mm tubes are very desirable if shooting longer ranges, but usually a 5.56 isn’t going to be THAT effective at extended ranges.
My personal choice for an SPR rifle would be an option you haven’t listed. The Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x50. It is available with a mil-dot reticle, has approximately 67 MOA of vertical travel, has a side-focus, is relatively light, available with target turrets, and has optics on par with NF NXS glass and much better than Mark 4, VX-III, or many other optics. I’ve been told the Zeiss is brighter and higher resolution than Swarovski’s A-line or USO. Comparing them side by side, I can’t tell much difference. IOR actually uses the same glass as the Zeiss. I’d recommend you try one out and see for yourself. It is a very good compromise.
Failure I suggested this scope because I have it on my MK12 that I got from Monty and really like it. For the price you can’t beat it and with the way Leupold is going now I don’t like them. Great scope easy to use and built very well. I am sure Monty can give you a better response than me.
number 4 all the way.
1.Nightforces are built like a tank.
2.The R2 reticle was deisgned by an Agency guy w/25 yrs service who is the most proficent sniper i’ve ever met.He is also a Mechanical Engineer by trade,so he has a handle on the mathematic’s involved with long range shooting.The R2 reticle makes using Mi-Dot’s antiquated.
I’ve used 18" Mk12’s and 20" SAM/DMR rifles with several different scopes, including the Leup 3.5-10x, Leup 3-9x, NF 2.5-10 x 24, NF 3.5-15 x 50, S&B 3-12x50–if you are shooting primarily under 600, it is hard to beat the NF 2.5-10x models; if you are primarily shooting longer then the NF 3.5-15 and S&B 3-12 are better options. We still have quite a few Leup’s in inventory, so are using them, but when they need replacement, will go with the NF’s or possibly S&B’s.
Doc, price wise NF vs Leup, similar power? At our last class together Pat’s friend was using the NF 1X4, very nice. I was thinking Leup but NF was on the back of my mind after seeing the NF 1X4. S&B is a bit too pricy for me. thanks.
Generally, NF is better glass than Leup and not as expensive as S&B. Cost can be a factor–at one point we were able to purchase six Leup 1.5-5x scopes for the price of one S&B 1.1-4x…we got the Leup’s–even though they were not as good as the S&B’s, the Leup’s got the job done.
Currently on order with an upper from Monty, now scratching my head about the type of glass to use.
Would there be any reason to get the smaller Night Force NXS 2.5-10 24 scope over the 32 scope that has been recommended here? I really like to keep things KISS, And what would you guys recommend as a better choice, the Larue mount or the NF rings?