My apologies for linking to another forum.
I hadnt seen this topic discussed here and would value the input of our forum members.
I have been to a few classes. Im one of a few firearms instructors in my dept. Im no expert, but hell would freeze over before I would conduct this drill. The potential for disaster is obvious. The gain is nonexistant. Am I wrong???
My old SO sent every SWAT guy to Bens class and they all talked about this drill. They said they were freaked out at first but got over it. I did the drill once. No need to ever do it again and I have never ran it with any of my people or the SWAT guys when I was their Range Master.
Damn! You would really have to trust the gun handling skill of your classmates.
I’d be interested to know who the instructor was that lead the drill pictured in that thread.
EDIT – Explained by Sam
There may be valid reasons for the drill being set up the way it is. I’ll leave the explaining of the merits/folly of such things to people who actually know what they are talking about.
This would appear to go way beyond the snake drill. I wouldn’t participate in something like that. Hell, I’d be reluctant to do the snake drill depending on how well I knew the class members and what I had seen them do in the class up to that point.
Yup.
There are a number of folks I have trained with whom I would trust in such a drill.
Personally I don’t think I would trust myself to participate in the drill even if surrounded by the aforementioned trusted folks.
Ken Hackathorn does a similar technique. Not nearly as dangerous though.
Yeah, The pic looks like their shooting on the move. Even scarier! :eek:
That picture was not in anyway shape or form connected to Ken Hackathorn or the snake drill. I do have a picture of the snake drill. I’ve participated in at least a dozen snake drills, it is safe and nowhere near the pucker factor as the pictures in this thread. It is usually done at the end of the class, after at least two days of preparations and observation of the students skills. At no time does anyone point a gun at each other, the major point of the drill is to teach a student to be able to operate in tight quarters with friendlies WITHOUT pointing a weapon at each other.
Take these pictures with a grain of salt. There is no explanation attached to it from first hand experience.
I’ve done this before while doing MOUNT training.
It was labeled a “confidence drill”, as in confidence in your team mates. It wasn’t a big step from our standard live fire Squad, Plt or Co in the attack since you’ll always have some “down range” from others in the attack.
About what I figured.
Haven’t shot with anyone near enough to be doing that drill…:eek:
Maybe if we had been cozy, as a team/unit, for about 2 months.
The benefits dont seem to be greater than the risk of shooting a classmate
Looks pretty controlled to me. I don’t think I’ve been to any class yet that I would be afraid to do this with the vast majority of the students by the last day of class… Of course, there’s always “that guy”.
You guys ought to take a class or 3 with Tactical Response! Stuff like this won’t scare you so much after that! 
I can think of very few situations where I might actually have to shoot somebody where there would not be friendlies/noncombatants downrange to consider. Seems better to learn these things in a controlled environment than be forced to “learn on the fly” when somebody is trying to KILL you.
I’m not going to be the “whoops” when some fatbody on the other end of the range, who is wiped out after 3 days of training and dragging his feet, trips and puts one in my head. thanks though.
That would be “that guy”… the one I’d not be comfortable doing this kind of stuff with either. But the drill itself is no big deal. Things like this, taken out of context, appear a lot more freaky than they really are. If you’ve ever done the “snake drill” shoulder-to-shoulder with the shooters, this shouldn’t be any scarier. No way is it as scary as some of the other drills that are out there.
Believe me - I’m a guy that understands the difference between “brave” (calculated risk) and foolhardy. I’ve sat out a drill before because I thought it crossed that line, but I don’t think I’d sit out the one in these photos.
Been to that SWAT school, got the t-shirt and hat. No, they aren’t doing that specific drill anymore. However, there are similar drills with pairs of officers bounding and covering with only a couple of feet between the lanes, moving and shooting, at night. It’s interesting, to say the least. The bus assault drills are interesting, as well. You damned sure better not stop moving, once the conga music starts.
Does this mean I’m high-speed? I thought I was high-drag, glacial-speed. Years and years of gnawing and agitation producing lots of scouring!
Bounding shoot/move drills at night with only “couple of feet between the lanes”? Now that gives me the willies! :eek:
I don’t know if your statement was meant to be ironic.
I myself would hesitate taking a TR or Suarez class for just such reasons. Before anybody jumps me for this opinion, those two organizations have cultivated that perception of how they train, rightly or wrongly.
Ironic? No, it was meant to be VERY serious.
If you “train”, the fact is you’re theoretically training to FIGHT and to KILL other people who are trying to kill you. If you lose sight of that, or don’t come to grips with that, you’re not really training - You’re just playing.
Should you hesitate to train with Suarez or Yeager? I think not. And I say that in all seriousness. No irony or smartassedness intended.
They will not have you taking undue risks for the sake of risk, but they will make you come to grips with what you are training for. They will make you feel/undertand the seriousness of what you’re training for at your core. Anything less than that, I think is cheating you out of your money… and maybe out of your life.
Any other TR or Suarez alumni care to help me out here? I may not be getting my “mindset” point across the way I’m trying to.