I’ve looked up and read what I could about suppressors, but I’m still lost. I’ve been giving thought to getting a suppressor for the AR and about all I’ve been able to figure out is that I need to get a tax stamp, have to obey local ordinances as well as federal law and they don’t go phfft! like they do in the movies.
My next AR will be a 5.56 carbine with a minimum barrel length of 16" for house defense and use in carbine classes among other types of general shooting. (SBR may not be practical consideration. As a contracted aviation technician, I move around a lot. One of the places I keep ending up is Washington and SBRs are verbotten.) I’m going to ask a few questions and hope I’m asking the right ones. The one I have to answer for myself is whether or not it’s worth the trouble.
Can an AR carbine be built to function reliably with or without the suppressor? If so, is it easily done, or is it a series of well considered trade-offs? Would it be simpler (albeit costlier) to have a suppressed and a non-suppressed upper?
Some suppressors can be mounted to A2 flashhiders. Some require a special muzzle device. Are the specialized mounts better?
How well would it work to use the BC 2.0 as a suppressor mount?
When moving, particularly to another state, is updating the paper work a pain?
What about setting up my precision AR with a suppressor? (I have no need to do so, just thought it would be fun to try.)
Yes, especially on a 16" gun it shouldn’t be a problem
Some suppressors can be mounted to A2 flashhiders. Some require a special muzzle device. Are the specialized mounts better?
If by better you mean more expensive, then yes. Some proprietary mounts allow for fast attach. You can weight this feature against costs of the mount(s).
How well would it work to use the BC 2.0 as a suppressor mount?
same as an A2
When moving, particularly to another state, is updating the paper work a pain?
you file a simple (optional) form with the ATF. You are not required to inform them about inter-state moves of silencers.
What about setting up my precision AR with a suppressor? (I have no need to do so, just thought it would be fun to try.)
depending on the the way the suppressor mounts to the barrel, it shouldn’t be any more trouble. You will at least need a threaded barrel.
Yes, but there are trades. Your AR now has DOUBLE the amount of gas it needs to run. This means that you might get more malfunctions and BCG’s not locking back. There are ways to minimize this though via heavy buffers and better springs. With that said, going with a gun that has the ability to tune the GP size is a great thing (like the Noveske switch block).
Generally yes. In that you will generally get less POI shifts.
I think it will work just fine, but will most like have a 2-5" POI shift.
Not really.
Same problems as question 1.
Most of the quality manufacturers are close to one another in the DB ratings. So it comes down to three main factors. They are cost, weight/size and POI shift.
As stated above, POI shifts can vary a lot (up to 5 inches in some instances). For many, they zero the AR with the can on and never take it off. Then have another AR they shoot for non-suppressed use.
For me, a 3" POI shift (the industry norm) is totally unacceptable. So I only use SureFire Suppressor’s as they typically have UNDER a 1" POI shift.
Grant answered your questions as short and concise as can be done, so based on your original post, I’ll just offer some additional opinions…
If you plan to shoot suppressed 99.99% of the time, then POI shift and the expensive quick attach features are a moot point.
If you plan to go from suppressed to unsuppressed depending on the situation, then you have a couple options (either option, quick attach features would be nice, but still not mandatory):
Have two uppers set up as similar as possible so you can have your POA/POI be consistent for both unsuppressed/suppressed shooting and have the “optimal” buffer/spring combo for unsuppressed/suppressed shooting
Go the Noveske Switchblock route and have your POA/POI set for suppressed shooting (if that’s how you plan to use your weapon in a defensive situation) and just deal with the POI change when shooting unsuppressed.
Basically it will come down to what you can afford I guess…
RE: POI shift. Most top brands out there (AAC, Surefire) will have repeatable POI shift.
POI shift is usually very repeatable with any good suppressor and mount. Certainly it is repeatable for the AAC, Surefire, Ops Inc., etc with dedicated suppressor mounts.
I shoot an AAC M4-2000 on a couple of uppers and don’t really notice any huge issues with POI shift when doing carbine work at CQB distances - I can still hit the center of a man sized silhouette with or without the can on.
Reliability is great on my 10.5" MRP, my buddy’s exact same 10.5" MRP, and my 12.5" Noveske Crusader upper with Switchblock. We use Wolf .223 and Lake City 5.56, flawless with both.
POI shift will be repeatable, as stated. And it’ll depend entirely on the barrel. I have one 14.5 barrel that has like 1 MOA high POI shift, and that same silencer on another 14.5" barrel has like a 5MOA drop.
I’m assuming that since you say your “next” AR will have the specs you mentioned that you haven’t started building it yet. I also get the reasons why you don’t want to SBR the gun, but have you considered a 14.5" barrel with a pinned/welded flash hider (or whatever muzzle device you go with)? That way you have a 16" overall length, but it is about an 1.5-2" shorter than it would be otherwise. Although, I don’t know (what I don’t know) how that would affect the use of a can.
My question would be if having a midlength or carbine system influence the performance of the gun w/ a can and w/out one.
I’m very interested in this as it is kind of what I want to do now that I know a little bit better than I did when I made my first AR purchase.
I’d venture to say that you’ll prefer shooting suppressed entirely by a wide margin. If you’re worried about complications from moving, select a brake mount rather than a flash hider mount and you’ll be good to go in the two or three states that care about features (after chopping off the bayo lug) instead of it costing you a new barrel or upper.
My personal opinion is that my can was one of the biggest wastes of funds AR related. Since I have it, it resides on my HD gun, and since the used can market is for shit, there’s no point selling it.
I have cans in .22, 9mm, and 5.56 and all but the .22 cans have proven to be a complete waste of money, and in fact the .22 can isn’t much less of a waste.
I find them interesting from an engineering and hobbyist standpoint, but I pretty much never shoot with them mounted.
The new 762SD-N-6 can from AAC is the first silencer (since buying my own) that makes me reconsider this, simply because that one can is capable of being mounted on so many different rifles. I have personally fired over 1k rounds of subsonic 300 BLK though one, along with several hundred 5.56. It could be mounted on an HD AR in 300 BLK, used on a training facsimile in 5.56, attached to a precision AR in 6.8, and on a practical (or precision) bolt gun in .308, not to mention an AK in 7.62x39 if the gun is properly equipped with the correct mount.
Barring that, I know many, many people with silencers, who are happy they have them, like owning them, but never shoot with them. IMO that’s a waste, but I am well aware that I am in the minority in this.
I shoot suppressed almost all the time. As a matter of fact when markm and Pappabear start making noise with their stuff I tend to get irritated. I have now started a new campaign. “Friends Don’t Let Friends Shoot Unsuppressed”. I need to find a place to make some bumperstickers.
Rob_s, that’s was the most important reason I bought one. It does everthing I want it to and more. It’s not a waste for me, because ear pro while hunting doesn’t work. The state finally legalized hunting with cans last year, and as you said it has many uses. Hey, at least it got me to start reloading for subsonic, now everything else.
markm, were you talking aac 5.56 can , or 7.62. The 7.62 it not as bad on an ar.
Rob, I assume the reason you find them to be a waste of money is that they don’t perform as well as expected. Is this because they are not as quiet as they should be? What do you find to be lacking? Or is my assumption incorrect?