I’ve seen this posted more than a few times, especially whenever the subject of the Colt 6920 comes up. Rather than hijack all these other threads, I thought I’d post seperately and see what exactly the guys who say this would build. Often there are posts relating to sight radius/gas system length and/or barrel profile, and those deviations are acceptable. In this case, however, I think certain criteria are non-negotiable:
Sabre carbine or Midlength, I got some PKfirearms CMT upper/Sabre barrel for $399
Bravo Co… fair price in the unlikely event in stock low $400s IIRC
There are numerous good bolt groups: LMT, CMT, FN
The beauty of the AR is modularity… I personally couldn’t choke down Colt prices.
If I wasn’t AR savy I’d get a LMT “defender” lower, $350 from numerous vendors, LMT bolt group & charging handle $150 and add any upper from above… probably LMT 14.5" with a perm-afixed longer flashhider.
Somebody like Robb can most likely build me a very good upper or rifle from very good components at least in the same price range and probably coming in a bit under what you could buy a Colt for on the average gunstore shelf…
Frankly I would never want a rifle I built myself. I don’t look down on the idea of someone building their own weapon, but I know that if I built it I would most likely be killed by the explosion the first time I shot it.
I am trying to achieve exactly that with my first build, and living in Canada doesn’t make it easy.
I managed to find a CMMG 14.5" SOCOM barrel (one of only a handful in the country), mated to a “Keyhole”, T-Marked CMT upper with M4 feed ramps. Colt M4 double heat shield handguards and a Colt M4 sling mount. I also sourced a LMT M16 bolt carrier group and charging handle for the upper.
I have a Stag Arms lower that I plan on finishing with CMT lower parts kit and stock as soon as our dealer gets the parts imported.
I am hoping to get this done real soon as the weather is finally starting to warm up.
Totally understand wanting the F marked FSB. Have you ever experienced a problem w/rifle feed ramps?I haven’t ever had a failure to feed that wasn’t attributed to a bad magazine or improperly adjusted or worn/broken mag catch. Have you ever or do you ever shoot enough to even see the difference in a 4150 barrel vs. a non-4150? , I shoot a boat load and have never noticed a difference between 4140, 4150, non chrome-lining and stainless bbls other than the stainless & non chrome-lined bbls being more accurate generally. There are better barrels as in the HK416. The Noveske 17-4 is also an excellent barrel, but again I probably don’t shoot well enough fast enough to ever see the difference. How many AR bolts have you broken in your shooting history? I’ve broken 7 since 1975, 3 were MP tested Colt bolts in carbines. I’ve never had one fail in a 20" gun. All bolts break in AR direct impingment carbines with enough rounds through them. If you haven’t broken one yet you need to shoot some more and report back.
Given the fact that I dont have the means to mate a barrel and a upper (I know it is not that hard) I buy LMT uppers. I have been getting a complete LMT upper for $537. For that price it is hard to put anything together, especially when you figure in the cost of a barrel wrench, vice block, and headspace guages (unless you build them frequently). Lowers dont matter much to me as long as they look decent. At this time my lowers are LMT or Global Tactical. Just my 2 cents.
Hmmm lets see. You can go brand new or slightly used.
Colt M4 1/7 14.5 GI barrel, 199.00 from JT Distributing. note, they have limited supply, and I think I got a deal. Never Used!
Picked up some Colt M4 upper receivers for 165.00 each. Little to no use, looks new.
Gas Tube’s 15.00ish
Charging Handles, 15.00ish
LMT Lower Receivers, 330.00 New
Colt and or LMT BCG, 120.00 New
845.00…can be done. Did three of em. Also, bought some used, but not abused, Knight RAS’ for 200.00 each, and 300m BUIS for 100.00 each. I also added Bushmaster front swing swivel thingies that go under the front sight assembly for 35.00 each. This brings me up to 1180.00. This is grab it and go M4, as close to spec as you can get. As far as one can see…they look absolutely brand spanking new. Again I built three of them all the same.
One can also go LMT…my price for an complete M4 is far less expensive than a Colt, without BUIS or Hand guards/Rails.
Love my LMTs & Colts.
This is a great topic…not to Hijack this one, but it would be interesting to know who has built the highest quality AR for the cheapest price. Not talking about freebie T&E stuff, I am talking about money was spent from FH to stock, new or used.
I would much rather have this set up than a Colt where you pay a premium for a name. Not only is it roughly $455 cheaper than the 6920 but I bet I could make it just as/more reliable. Also a much better collapsible stock than the Colt. For around the same price of a 6920 you can add an Aimpoint ML3 in a LaRue mount to this setup.
Playing devil’s advocate, or just being argumentative?
Look, better is better. Whether or not you need better is a whole other debate, but those 4 things, plus quite a few others are contributors to the higher cost of a Colt vs. many of the other brands. What I see posted here and other places is “I can build a better rifle than the Colt for less money”, so I’m curious to know what makes it better and how much it ultimately costs.
Like I said, better is better. If someone can show me how to have better for less money I’ll take it every time.
So far the closest anyone has come to being equal quality for less money is the LMTs. I do believe that they are very, very close. I used to own one of their uppers, and besides a couple of issues I thought it was pretty good.
Devils Advocate, really.
I see what your saying. Some believe that if they assemble a & rifle kit and use the cheapest lower they can find that they somehow now have an AR of Colt quality and/or their AR is properly assembled. These people are dilusional.
I’ve had good luck with LMT products. On my own LMTs I pull the barrel from the upper receiver and reassemble correctly. This is because LMT seems to not know what moly grease is nor what proper torque specs are for barrel installation.
LMTs are great barrels. I like them and have yet to wear one out. On the other hand I have a friend who works in Federal law enforcement and sees Colt barrels outlast LMT barrels quite a bit. Like I said I don’t shoot well enough, fast enough and don’t push my ARs hard enough to see the difference. If I want resale value I would use Colt or Noveske barrel. If I want barrels that stand up to my use I use RRA, CMT/Stag, LMT, Wilson & even DPMS barrels that I’ve reamed with a Ned Christiansen 5.56mm NATO neck and throat reamer. Better is subjective.
I can think of two other barrels that I would rather have (over Colt) if looking for a brand new 5.56mm NATO chambered chrome-lined barrel. These are BCM and Sabre Defence barrels.
Im glad to see thatsomeone else has had this same problem. I managed to break a GI barrel wrench on one upper and wound up having to freeze the damn thing to get the nut off. When I reassembled it I used a torque wrench and a little blob of moly grease so it was done “right”.
I’ve had them so tight that I had to cut the delta ring, weld spring with bolt cutters and use a large plumbers pipe/monkey wrench to remove the barrel nut. Required because of bent and broken teeth on the LMT barrel nut. Usually I can loosen them fine with a DPMS barrel wrench, the USGI wrench isn’t stable enough for LMT barrel removal.
I once had over 1/2 of a new shipment of Colt m4a1’s disfunctional due to improper assembly…
There was a time when Colt’s QA/QC was so bad, the weps were going down so often, user confidence was nil, that at an Admirals Call (open forum with the man) a junior enlisted guy asked “what the fuck is going to be done about these POS m4’s that don’t work”… I think this couple of years gave the SCAR program it’s impetus.
Given the choice, and that I have the tools, I’d rather just buy quality components and assemble them myself.
