Ive been trying to do my research but it seems there is a lot of conflicting information about trusts…
What benefit do I have say going the NFA lawyer route for $600 vs say Silencer shops online trust (which apparently a lawyer put together)?
I am sure its all in the language…but I want a valid trust that includes everything necessary and actually functions in the future, but I also don’t want to spend a ridiculous about for a trust…
Can someone explain this to me? Some other lawyer based nfa trust sites only charge a $100 as well…
I mean does lawyer = quality?
Also, with trusts do you include the Schedule A or whatever each time you submit stamps? What if you are applying for your first stamp?
Has anyone used Quicken Wills to do a trust? I am getting ready to get an AR pistol, and then get the lower engraved, but I’d like to File Form 1 using a trust.
I have a quicken trust, that I got from a buddy who got it from a buddy and is used by about 50 people.
You can spend the $$ on lawyer to get a trust or you can cheap out like I did and get one. At the end of the day if the ATF wants to demolish trusts they will and how much you paid will mean nothing.
I originally did my trust with Quicken Will Maker Pro and always had nagging doubts about if it was done correctly. I accepted the default name it gave the trust, Xxxxx X Xxxx Revocable Living Trust, because I didn’t know any better. Now I have a lengthy name to engrave when I Form 1.
I recently ammended my trust and I used an in-state lawer who is familiar with our state trust laws. Got him off Silencer Shops recommended lawyers, although they don’t list one in each state. The lawyer is very thorough, knows NFA trusts, and his process is seamless for getting it done correctly and quickly. He answered all my questions by e-mail very promptly and made the process very clear. It cost $225 and I had it by e-mail the next day. It was worth every penny to me to know for sure that it was all done right. I am also his client now and can contact him if I have an issue.
My version of Will Maker erroneously states that the trust must be filed in court and I learned that information is incorrect.
Different states have different requirements for trusts. I think it is worth finding a lawyer in your state but $600 is a little high IMO. $225 was worth my piece of mind.
PS Keep your trust name short and DON’T include Revocable Living Trust in the name.
This. There is NFA-specific language that needs to be in your trust, and different states have different requirements in general regarding trusts. I’ve never been a fan of/comfortable with one-size-fits-all trusts. Find someone in your state with specific knowledge of NFA trusts. It shouldn’t cost you anywhere near $600 and it’s worth the investment. If you end up getting several stamps (and you will) that initial investment seems smaller when you look at the big picture.
I don’t know if I agree with that. I paid a lawyer for mine. In looking through it, there’s all kinds of NFA/BATFE verbiage. However, there’s not one single bit of it that isn’t already covered by ATF/NFA regulations.
There’s a whole bunch of “must follow all ATF, federal, state and local laws” statements. Several mentions of not transferring or being in possession without ATF approval. Mention of 5320.20 forms for out of state travel. All kinds of that stuff over and over…every bit which is still true with a “regular” trust.
199trust.com had a Black Friday sale I took advantage of, $60. This after searching and finding plenty of guys who used them successfully, including a local guy I know personally.
Your location is not listed. I’ve heard some states have specific requirements for trusts. Turns out 199trust is in MI as am I.
My 1st form 1, with only a lower receiver listed on Schedule A, was submitted through eforms late Dec. and approved 31 days later.
By “needs to be”, I should have clarified in my personal opinion. I don’t like taking chances when playing in the ATF’s vast grey area. We know they are already trying to make changes to the way trusts are handled, so I like the added comfort and want my trust to be as future proof as possible. But y’all are correct, legally speaking you can get away with a lot less. For now.
199trust and call it a day. Submitted over 20 items and never had an issue. Do something simple like your first initial and then last name followed by NFA Trust… (J. Doe NFA Trust). Short and easy for engraving. If you only plan to use it for NFA items, I don’t see why you would spend more doing it somewhere else. And you have your trust in 2 days. Just my .02
And just to present the opposite side of it, here in NC there were issues a couple years ago surrounding having a trust solely for the possession of NFA items. So, having Smith Firearms Trust or Smith NFA Trust raised several red flags.
However, having Smith Living Trust, which happened to hold firearms, wasn’t an issue.
Trusts are simply legal vessels for holding property, regardless of what they’re named.
Bottom line is do what you’re comfortable with, in regards to source, cost and verbiage. The ATF issuing you a stamp is a very minor part of the process.
I have a few items on a quicken trust that went through fine but I wanted a nfa specific trust. I had a trust setup through the silencer shop recommendation but I found the trust overly complicated for what I wanted, ymmv, (need 2 witnesses for the signing that is not part of the trust, address change is an additional charge, and a few other things that were more time/money consuming). I never submitted anything on that trust and purchased another trust from a pnw nfa trust group and for my needs it’s simpler and easier to update, ymmv. I have 3 suppressors and 2 form 1’s pending so I’ll see what happens in a few weeks on the form 1’s.
Well I guess what I am asking is what are the differences? Pros/cons?
There really is nothing out there explaining the differences between each or what you really get with it…
Also, ya sure you are gonna get approved if its valid, but what about when the trust is necessary to pass down your items? Or do you guys not care and just want possession of nfa items the easier way?
Also, when I was mentioning $600, that was for a Phoenix lawyer who was recommended.
All I care about is the approval for the items and am not worried about passing down items. If you have a large collection (including non-nfa items) that you want to pass down then maybe a local lawyer would be better as you acquire new items or want changes made. Usually, but not always, it looks like the more expensive trusts are setup for things more complicated than just simple nfa possession. Definitely ask the lawyer drafting the trust what the limitations are inherent in the trust and what’s required for changes (schedule A you should be able to change on your own).
Not true. The ATF may decide to disallow trusts in the future, but if they do, existing, valid trusts will remain. Don’t believe me? Call your trust lawyer. (Oh … that’s right … you don’t have one. Well, internet rumor and speculation are just as good, right? And they’re free.)
Each state is unique. State A may have similar trust laws to State B (although it’s unlikely that they will be 100% identical, and the minor details can be critical), but that doesn’t mean that a trust drafted according to State A’s laws will be valid in State B. Maybe, maybe not.
For now. Aye, there’s the rub. BATF examiners are not attorneys. They just review your trust to see if it “looks” OK. If it does (and most Quicken and other pretend trusts look OK to the untrained eye), then you get your stamp. But if your trust is ever challenged in the future, you can bet that it will be thoroughly examined by experts in your state’s trust law … and if those experts decide that your pretend trust doesn’t meet all of your state’s requirements, then you san say adios to your collection of NFA toys … and possibly adios to your freedom as well.