How to patrol? What to carry?

Training Training and Tactics
1

All, newbie to this forum here. Please pardon this extensive post.

I live in the rural midwest. My farm is about 5 miles away from a town of 15000, and about 7 miles away from a town of 3500. The farm(s) total around 300 acres, and are split by a paved road and a gravel road. We have a non-navigable river on one side, with a gravel road bridge crossing it. There is room at the bridge for cars to park and not get ticketed.

My question is, How do I patrol this effectively, and what do I carry? The terrain is about 40% wooded, mostly rolling countryside. Trees in the fence lines, etc. Unusual that you could have a > 150 yard shot at anything, except from the top of one of the hills. You could do as much as 900 yards that way. Don’t have a hilltop that commands a view all around, so at most about 1/4 of the land is visible at any given time, often much less.

We have had trouble with poaching (fish and game), theft, burglary, trespassing, drug users, meth producers, cache-and-pickup operations (we think probably drugs), fence cutting, littering, junk dumping, and out of control off-roaders in the river.

I started several years ago just walking and studying the terrain, looking for stuff that shouldn’t be there (footprint, beer bottle, etc). Then about 2 years ago (after someone shot off a bunch of rounds from the gravel road with me standing right there) I started carrying an AK74 with me (cheap and I can drop it in the mud without cringing), then this year things got really crazy, so I started carrying a .45, HD video camera w/ optical zoom, my AK, a 3 watt led flashlight, note paper and pencils, my cell phone, and snacks because I was out for longer and longer times. Things got REALLY crazy busy then, and I now am to the point where I need a good still camera w/ mongo lens, remote video monitoring, and the sherriff on speed dial. I’m seriously considering buying night-vision at this point.

I’ve started a program to upgrade my AR (for accuracy), but I’m needing input on what to carry, gear wise as well as AR-mod wise. As you can imagine, I’m also looking for how to carry it, so ideas there would be good as well.

Oh, and the AR at the moment is a parts gun, 16" barrel, A1 upper, full stock lower. Shoots about as accurately as my AK (hence the need for an upgrade).

Thanks, all, for your input. Also, I think I’ve put this in the right forum, but if I’m off base, I would appreciate guidance on where to move it (assuming that I can move it:-)

2

you should get a lot of good replies to this question. for my part, i’m just going to strongly suggest you get some formal training with your weapon system ASAP, and read the technical stickies and specifically this one.

your description of your situation sounds potentially violent- just having a weapon doesn’t mean you’ll survive an armed confrontation with druggies/drug dealers/violent criminals in general. and if you’re going to be patroling at night, NV is definately a good thing- but it’s costly to get a decent setup, and also pretty much requires it’s own formal instruction from someone experienced in night fighting.

stay safe, good luck.

3

Thanks for the links. I was perusing the second one about parts guns prior to posting. The AK always goes bang, but at any kind of distance it’s really anybody’s guess where the bullet is going to go. My “primary” emergency gun is a custom FAL, but it’s way too heavy to be humping around while I fix the fence and so on. Plus I really do cringe when it get’s dropped in the mud/manure/whatever. It goes “bang” everytime too:-)

You are absolutely right about the gun being no guarantee. I’ve been keeping my distance as much as possible, but in order to get the pictures, I’ve been up close and personal several times (about 20 this summer). I really do have the sheriff on speed dial:-)

The biggest advantage is that I know every rock and nearly every tree in the boundaries. Even so, you’d be surprised at how difficult it is to walk through the woods at night without hanging up on an old fence, low tree branch, etc. Well, on second thought, maybe you would know about that:-)

Any and all input welcome. Good plans come from good ideas.

4

You are not going to be able to effectively patrol 300 acres by yourself.
There are a whole lot of non-positive outcomes that are highly likely should you actually come accross bad people.
It’s one of those times that you need to identify what you actually can need to defend and what you can defend. I would look into making a specific point/area as tactically advantageous to a defender as possible.
Carrying a weapon for defense is always a good idea in my book, but active and effective patrolling requires manpower and time. If on a walk-about you find something that indicates a criminal presence, get back to the house while calling the police.

You also need to consider what is going on with your home while you are out, and how caipable those in the home will be at defense during your absence.

I am going to be frank, this thread is already on thin ice, and if it turns silly it will have to be shutdown. Anyone offering advice/experience needs to do so firmly grounded in reality.

5

If you’re solo, I would encourage you to inspect your property during the daylight hours, and maybe set up nighttime “Game Watcher” cameras. It would be good territorial reinforcement, and good way to know what is on your property for a variety of reasons.

Patrolling means a lot of things to different people. Enforcing the privacy of your property by yourself is decidedly precarious; so remember, the focus of your patrol mission is to maintain and inspect property. Accordingly, a sidearm is a must for your self-defense, and the rifle a good idea for the culling of all kinds of varmints, as well. I would do that even if there were NO KNOWN problems with your property.

AGAIN, your mission is NOT about confronting folks with force. The pistol and rifle are merely life-saving tools you keep with you as you inspect your property alone, as you could encounter any number of issues while out and about. That’s why you have a radio, first aid kit, a pre-filed plan, a day or two’s provisions, and fire-extinguisher with you.

Now that you know about these problems on your property, you have to think about several layers of territorial reinforcement, in an attempt to create defensible space. I would certainly post “No Trespassing” signs and build appropriate fencing to establish the property is private.

Patrolling should be systematic – with a plan someone else is aware of – and at a relatively low speed to improve observation.

If patrolling means enforcement, that could create significant risk – and a reasonable risk/benefit analysis needs to be done.

You cannot watch your own six all the time. Killing knuckleheads or getting killed by some knuckleheads trespassing may not be worth the effort, ethically, legally or practically.

Be sure you are well-versed on the law as it pertains to self-defense in your state; get some solid legal and practical training; and to that end, have some REALISTIC expectations as to the legal aftermath of a deadly force incident on your property.

Always, and especially for good folks – know what lawyer you want to call BEFORE you need one! Have that number stored in your phone! And if you are ever read your “Rights to remain silent,” SHUT UP! I am NOT saying you should EVER break ANY law – I am saying a right not exercised is a right lost.

If you think I or someone like me is guaranteed to get your emotional, trauma-stricken statement exactly right the first time – you have watched WAY too much TV. The police are there to obtain facts as it relates to investigating crime – not to take YOUR side or provide psychological closure for this messed up scene. NO ONE wants to have to explain a comment taken out of context – so refrain from diarrhea of the mouth.

Be quiet, tell your family to be quiet (ESPECIALLY the wife and kids) and call your lawyer. Have that plan in place before you need it.

If it is available in your area, check for the NRA’s Basic Personal Protection Course, and ask specifically about the Legal Aspects of Deadly Force as it pertains to you and your locale.

Good luck, and Godspeed.

6

Failure2Stop and PRGGodfather have given some very sound advice–please head it.

7

Thank you all who have commented. I appreciate such well thought out advice. To add some clarity, confrontation is the last thing I want. So building a good relationship with local law enforcement has been high on my list.

I was hoping to also get some advice about how experts carry gear for this kind of activity. For example, is this really a smll backpack type of activity, or should I be looking at some sort of sling bag? The reason I ask is because the cameras are just too big to put in a pocket. Plus with the other smaller items I’m just running out of pockets.

I forgot to say that my military service did not provide much in the way of training in this area, and that was a good many years ago anyway.

Finally, I have neglected to say that my primary purpose to date for engaging in my walkabouts has been to get the pictures for the LEOs. It has proven to be more effective to show them pictures when they arrive than to just tell my latest story.

Thanks again for your input.

8

Have you considered looking into the Sheriff’s reserve program? It would get you some training and put you on more equal ground when dealing with them on your problems.

You need to be looking at this from a scout role. Locate the trespassers and vector in the uniformed law enforcement while remaining undetected.

9

The very fact that you mentioned the camera(s) you carry, and the thoughts toward upgrading same, is a pretty good indicator that you’re thinking in the right direction.

As for carriage, it’s likely that a light first-line belt and the backpack you already have may suffice for your needs. Plenty of info about battle belts here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=214

10

+1 on the Cameras. I’m not going to get any deeper in this thread.

11

Any thoughts been given as to denying access via fencing and other barriers?

I know folks who have planted Locust trees and other such vegetation as they really discourage folks from pushing through them due to the thorns, back in the day Locust trees were planted all over Kansas as combination cattle barriers and windbreaks.

Any unauthorized dirt road type access can often be discouraged through appropriate logs or giant freakin rocks in the right places.

Game cams are a good idea IMHO.

12

I would be very cautious in receiving any formal weapon training in this regard. If you are placing yourself on a war footing by initiation of a armed patrol and a shooting event occurs, it will come out if you are charged that you not only prepared for the event, but trained for it.

Reserve officer training would do you well, and help to serve the community you live in.

Medical training and a good trauma kit is crucial as you live in a remote area. What about water rescue? Paracord should be in your kit.

Don’t disregard a back up communication phone…a prepaid cell is cheap and easy to acquire (make certain of cellular coverage before you buy).

What about neighbors? The area that borders your land…a local watch group?

13

I’ve never heard of this before - could you expand on how training increases liability?

M_P

14

In my opinion, and as I said “in this regard” lets say he was carrying a patrol pack, locked& loaded pistol and fully geared and armed and gets in a gun battle that hurts someone.

You cant tell me that in this day and age that the other persons (or family’s) lawyer won’t pull out the photos of the patrol pack or the gear itself, and the records of training in a tactical situation and what IF they find these posts…

Kinda looks like one could be ‘spoiling for a fight’. I understand the need to secure and patrol an area. But there are other things to think about now that the lawyers and courts are so deeply involved in our personal security.

15

I hope I don’t ever see another instance in which a board member here advocates to another one to NOT take training.

That is unsat.

16

Ridiculous.

That’s akin to “don’t buy a gun, because someone might take it away from you.” The day we cannot receive training to protect our property – check what country you live in.

The important part is to receive CORRECT training, which includes Legal Aspects of Deadly Force, so you can be sure the scenario in which you defended your own life was in fact, DEFENSIVE. Even cops cannot create their own emergencies and expect not to be sanctioned, sued or prosecuted.

It’s not about just receiving marksmanship training, and gearing up for an offensive. It’s about creating the appropriate situational awareness so sound decisions are made, and we do NOT give the prosection the elements to the offense to make any charge stick. Know the elements, have realistic expectations and what consequences will occur if you are NOT legally, morally or ethically justified.

Just because you received some training does not rise to the creation of “malice aforethought.” Conversely, just receiving some training and having some camping gear does not prepare anyone to patrol their own property for the purposes of enforcing its privacy. Yes, it makes sense to be very prudent and low-key, even when patrolling your own property for maintentance and inspection. Having a bedroll and and an 1894 in a scabbard on your horse isn’t likely to excite anyone’s sensibilities. A 4x4 with a rifle rack and med kit shouldn’t, either.

If you use deadly force, prepare to get sued. So what? You’re afraid more of the lawyers than getting killed? You will have already lost all you have and all you will ever have! Sure, they might get enough to bury the little SOB, but if I was legally justified, it won’t matter I was dressed in camo, black or tacti-khaki.

Sure, some ambulance chaser will say the crook you shot, “Would have been a neurosurgeon for Doctors without Borders, if he just hadn’t run into the wrong crowd.” Never mind the little bastard WAS the wrong crowd.

The fact that lawyers will spin the facts to get paid should not surprise any of us. We can still train for that aspect of the incident, too. While it always make sense that avoiding trouble is better than trying to get out of it – if one is going to inspect and maintain 300 acres – bring a gun (and a truck, a kit, a knife and friend!)!!

In the meantime, I shouldn’t leave my house to check my fences are still standing? Yeah, I wouldn’t dress like Hondo Harrelson to fix my fence posts – but I would definitely have a sidearm concealed on my person on my own property, and a long gun nearby. It might even be a Winchester 1894 or Marlin 1895G. Personally, I’d have a buddy to help me the whole time, too.

And if he was taking a dump when some dirty, bearded and uninvited a-holes showed up and threatened my life, which FORCED me to respond with deadly force?

Yeah, maybe I should just go out there unprepared, untrained and unarmed and these dirty, bearded folks will take mercy on me. And if they victimize me, at least I won’t get sued or taken to court!

I would rather be tried by 12 folks who couldn’t get out of jury duty, than be carried by six of my best friends.

17

couldnt agree with godfather more. worry about surviving the gunfight first and the trial later. better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

18

Uh… No.
Training should be at the forefront of priorities.

19

holy shit… you’d rather die than face a law suit?

investing in training displays a level of responsibility anyway… i’m sure a dickhead lawyer might try to use this tactic, but that doesn’t mean a jury is gonna buy it. most people appreciate when a person takes the time and spends the money to get educated.

20

Have about the same acreage as you on our (family)farm. Run mainly dairy but also chix and goats.

#1 rule we follow is: We are on a first name basis with our CLEO. Period. He is born and raised around here and knows the family. If you do not know your CLEO, make an appt., get introduced, and share your probs. with him. Make sure you let him know you want the SD to patrol the area and give permission to look around on your land if they see something they consider suspicious.

#2- Make the acquaintance of your District Attorney and let him know your issues. Make sure he is well aware of any self-patrolling ideas you have and make sure he is OK with them.

As far as patrolling your own land; I would never engage any trespasser(of whatever kind) on my own, but I sure as sh** would scare the sh** out of them and make intrusions uncomfortable with a spotlight and/or megaphone. Just realize some meth head may take a shot. That’s why knowing the lay of your land is so important. If you are going to “discourage” a trespasser, make sure you have adequate cover.

This is really a person and local specific issue. Only you know the boundaries of what is/isn’t acceptable and what your risk level is.