I’ve seen quite a few pics of soldiers and marines who have M4s without any BUIS. Obviously this is a question of availability for issue, but if they are getting along without them in combat, how necessary do you regard BUIS for your own use?
That is USMC SOCOM in Afghanistan, and given the tricked-out M4 (seen with a few of these guys, so it is not a one-off custom piece), they could have put any BUIS on there they wanted to, but did not.
You will see a lot of people with ACOGs on their rifle, such as this Marine, without a BUIS. This is primarily because the ACOG does not rely on batteries or electronics. Also, an increasing trend is to mount the ACOG at the rear of the upper receiver so that the eye relief is better with an A2 stock or body armor. The only real way to get one to fail is to shatter the glass or get it extremely gunked up. When utilizing an RDS, your chances of failure increase dramatically, so you will want something in place in case you need to get an aimed shot off in the event the reticle dies.
I think the philosophy is; it is better to have em and not need em than to need em and not have em.
That being said, it is pretty funny how may people have them on rifles that are just range guns. I do have them on all my ARs and I really do not know why. I have had them on my work rifles for seventeen years and you know how many times I have needed them-never. If you logically think about the likelihood of actually needing them; especially for a regular citizen is actually almost illogical.
1- your sight would have to inoperable
how does that occur? breakage or battery failure
so- you had to forget about checking your gear OR you were doing something so protracted and rigorous that you broke your optic. How often does a civilian become involved in a protracted gun battle where their optic goes down? um-never
2- the above happened and it happened and the exact time that you needed the optic AND you switch to BUIS and bam-good to go!
Can the stars fall in line and this happen? Yes. However, it is highly highly unlikely for anyone except LEOs or the Military. So, it does offer piece of mind. It is kind of like having insurance. I guess my point is just be realistic of why you are getting them. If you do not forsee any of the above happening you could probably skip them.
FYI- I am not questioning anyones reason for having them; as I said I do have them. Just trying to provide some honest evaluation.
I’ll bite…
I’ve often debated this as well, from an LEO standpoint. I think the necessity of BUIS depends on A) the reliability of your primary optic, and B) your backup plan/training in the event that it goes down.
Personal example: My patrol carbine is a Colt 6920. Its scoped with an ACOG with a red dot on top, and no BUIS. I have full faith that the ACOG, absent being shot, will keep working, and that if it doesn’t, the red dot on top can go for about 2 years without battery replacement. In either case, I still have 2 handguns to help me carry the fight.
My HD gun, however, has an EOTech XPS and a set of BUIS, since if that optic goes down, I probably won’t have a handgun, or anything else, on my hip to back it up.
You have to look at whether or not your envisioned usage requires backup sighting, and if so, what your backup is.
Now, does all this mean that you can’t put a cheap set of MBUS on your long gun, just in case you’re out of handgun range, or you have no other alternative? No, in fact its a good idea. I’d just like people to really think about their situation, rather than spout off a one-liner like, “I’d rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it”, “they’re only $55, so why not?” Are these true? Yes, but I just get the feeling that BUIS are a sacred cow of the AR world.
The guy in the pic has a laser to fall back on if is optic goes down plus he has a bunch of friends with guns…
.
Yes, and I suspect that he probably also have a sidearm somewhere.
Bring a gun
Preferably a long gun
Bring your friends with long guns.
Definitely following the rules here…
Hitman, my line about needing and not having wasn’t a dig at you; I wrote it before you posted. However, it seems that you’ve at least thought out your situation before spouting off, which is what I was getting at.
The ones I have are like $100 for the front and rear each (PRI), so they ain’t necessarily cheap.
I have five ARs, so maybe the one with the ACOG can go without BUIS…
The Troys come in closer to your PRIs as well, but the Magpul ones are significantly less, and are often given as a low cost option to folks who don’t have BUIS, by people who think they need them.
I was at a local rifle club for their “carbine night” last week. When we got to the line for the first drill of the night, one of the guys there went to turn on his Eotech and realized his batteries were dead. He didn’t have BUIS but fortunately someone had some extra AAs to give him. If no one had spare batteries, he would have spent the entire night using his big fat RDS as a ghost ring. Kinda lame but big deal, right? I believe it was also his HD gun. So if something went bump in the night he would have been SOL with his carbine.
As hitman said, if it’s your range gun and you have another couple guns you’d go to first for defense, when why would you need them?
If it’s a HD gun or a work gun for LEO/MIL then either:
Pretty simple if you ask me…does shit ever happen in life? If so buis’s still have the same exact amt. of merit as when they first came out.
I imagine guys like myself who run powered glass on precision config’s the majority of the time will most likely never have to engage them esp. if you are running something to the toughness of NF glass.
If your RDS equipped gun is used for important things, it should include a BUIS.
That being said, with RDSs like Aimpoint being so good and so reliable, the frequency in which a BUIS is truly needed is quite low.
Those using Eotechs, C-Mores, TacPoints, BSAs, and the like should absolutely have a BUIS, and expect to use it.
Iron sights were the original way to aim and fight with your weapon before the introduction of RDS/ACOG/Scopes? SO why would you not be willing to actually use irons and learn to shoot with irons only before using a newer aiming system. Irons were good enough for our grandfathers’ right. Not picking a fight but it would behoove those of us who depend upon our rifles for saving lives, including ours to have every available option to continue the fight by the implementation of redundant back up systems.
2 is 1, 1 is none. If you look at it in this respect. You have a primary optic and a secondary optic, and for the ratio of cost when compared to your rifle and its other components. Front/Rear Buis’ are inexpensive.
We are ALL entitled to our own “Opinions”,
Replies (or opinions) here, are how some people learn, and make decisions for themselves and what they “Feel” may work best for them.
I am thankful for this post. Sometimes I get to busy to stop and ask myself questions like this. So I welcome others “Opinions”.
I picked up a “MSAR” in a trade recently, and have been pondering a 2-? scope instead for home deff, and yet can take out and use a little longer range if wanted. So I felt this way I wouldn’t need “BUIS”. But I’m not sure how good a low powered scope (1-2 Power) would work in a home.
Kinda like wearing a cup, “this thing is just gettin’ in the way… Oh Sh*t !, I’m glad I had that on.” It’s all worth it in the blink of a eye.
My issue M16A4 (USMC) has an RCO and a BUIS, the RCO is strapped down with a locking mount and zip ties AND paracord, but I guess they still think it may fall off, so, BUIS.
With an ACOG, its almost a no fail optic, but, I have seen lenses break on plenty of sights (not the ACOG yet) so I think its irresponsible to not have a buis attached.
My Eotech died (optic died, not dead batteries) on a kidnapping call where the armed suspect was heading out the back as I was showing up. If its a range toy, it really doesn’t matter what you do with your carbine. If its for real, your answer is obvious.
Gramps- you are correct, the problem with opinions is that many people are basing them off ARFCOM info and a lack of real world use.
WWW- Squad tactics and use, as well as issued items are things that are brought into play with some of the military equipment. Its worth noting that in many cases guys are shooting what they are issued, and their options are limited.
I agree it depends on the situation and main optic in use. I keep buis on my carbines both civvi HD and MIL issue, because you never really know when Mr Murphy will rear his ugly little head. In fact if I get a new carbine I put irons on it first before I put a optic on it because irons are a couple hundred bucks and optics are several hundred plus I do not like to rely on solely optics reference mr murphy.
Not to nit-pick but the guy in the picture is not a marine. He’s wearing multi cam, his body armor looks like it is foliage or OD and his boots are tan not coyote brown. The marine corps generally wears their own digi desert (MARPAT) their body armor and accessories are almost universally coyote brown as are their boots. The individual pictured is most likely Army Special Operations. Again not to pick just pointing it out.
Not all military are gun guys like ourselves.
I had a thought awhile ago, moving the TA31 all the way to the rear for better eye relief. Could you put a rear buis in front of the optic with the big aperature to compensate for distance to your eye? I, uh, superglued the aperture into my KAC 300Meter sight b/c it was too loose for my liking so I can’t exactly try it:o
I would say buis are a must on any gun unless you have a full safe and some are strictly range only.
I’ll second this philosophy…Even us ‘civvies’ who’ll probably never need them should have them anyway, since they can be had for really cheap. I, myself, run an MBUS behind an XPS-3.
