How much cash can you have on you without it being seized?

General General Discussion
1

Some guys were talking about the “war on drugs” stuff and said if you were pulled over and had more than 10K on you, it could be seized.

It is the “cash” being seized, not you, so it has no rights.

I guess some stuff on the news has people discussing it.

Let’s say I am cruising westbound in a hurry to get to a 68 GTO for sale hoping it pans out to be a rare RAII one.
Or a two door post Tempest 350 HO.
Whatever.
Money, especially in the form of cold had cash, talks in these cases.

I am doing 15mph over the speed limit being all excited and in a hurry.

There is a bag on the seat next to me, along with a flash light, a few tools, etc. next to it.

For what ever reason the LEO asks if he minds if he takes a look in my truck. I say, “Thank you, but I do not consent to a warrantless search.”

He goes back to his car with my license, etc. and comes back and says he is having a dog come out to sniff my truck.

I say I do not consent to being detained and he walks away without answering with my license, registration ,and insurance in his hand.

A guy with a dog shows up, and despite being a middle aged white dude in a 3/4 ton truck with no ashtray he gets PC, and finds 30K in the bag.

They take it.

Can I truly not get it back?

How about if the truck interior and my urine are neg for any drugs does the PC get canned as false and get it back that way?

OK,
the above did not happen.

But,
from a LE perspective is that cash free for the taking, I mean seizing?

2

There was a lengthy article in this past Sundays Washington Post about the “Stop and Seize” tactics that have been happening since 9/11. They listed people getting as few as $8000 taken and one guy up to $75,000. They eventually did get their money back (some up to a year later) after having to hire a lawyer to fight for them. These people were not arrested, and were only cited for minor traffic violations. The cash being seized is being spent within departments as well.

The only way I understand you don’t get the money back is if they can prove you are trafficking drugs. But plenty of folks on their way to buy something have been caught in this web. If you feel like it it’s worth a read, one of WashPo’s few.

3

Is speeding 15mph above the limit probable cause?

4

No. But the people in the article I read either consented to a search, or a K-9 alerted to the presence of drugs only to turn up the money. Cash seized, individual released at the scene. Some were arrested on suspicion of drug trafficking but weren’t charged due to lack of evidence.

5

Cash is property. Just like any other property, you have a “bundle” of rights in it. If there are drugs + PC indicative of sales + cash in small denominations, then you are probably not getting it back, and charged with an additional felony in some states.

Unless there is a statute that prevents the transport of more than 10k in cash(which unless there is international travel, I can’t see that happening because business routinely take more than 10k to the bank), seizing that property would not only be unlawful, it would a violation of your 4th & 5th amendment rights.

Not only would you have a claim to get the cash back, but you would also have a civil claim.

I have seen absolute horror stories with cash confiscations, k9 alerts, and other situations involving the two. In some states the statute really makes it a pain. If there aren’t drugs in the car, I can’t imagine what justification they would have based on the hypo you gave.

6

…

7

Let me Google that for you.

Civil forfeiture is long and well established law, federal and in most states.

8

Total BS. I question anybody claiming their money was taken for no reason other than the amount.

The OP’s situation is a stretch. Now attemp to enter the country with a large amount of undeclared cash or precious metal and see what happens. Your head will be spinning for weeks.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

9

Read the article posted in this thread. It happens often.

10

It is happening and it’s not isolated. Google Tenaha, TX as an example. People have had as little as a few thousand taken from them. All that needs to happen is to create a scenario and confiscate. Due Process in these situations doesn’t apply.

11

I’ll do some more research on this. Being LE here in the northeast I know the hoops and hurdles we have to jump through and over to confiscate large amounts of cash and find some of these stories are lacking some details.

If they are true we sre in worst straits than I have imagined.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

12

Let me re-explain this to you, since apparently your googliness prevented you from understanding the OPs original hypothetical.

(1) OP stopped for Traffic violation
(2) OP k9’ed
(3) K9 Alerts, no drugs, just cash
(4) cash seized separate and apart from an instrument of criminality directly linking to the cash

That isn’t civil forfeiture, that is conversion, and a violation of the 4th and 5th amendment.

Absent a criminal link, you can’t take it because its just money in a bag.

13

I think we completely agree with your rundown,
but it seems places are taking the cash anyway.

14

Exactly

15

Yes, but the problem is that many times they take it knowing full well that you are a crook and won’t be able to challenge it without incriminating themselves in some way or fashion.

However, taking it from a person absent a criminal link is not only conversion, but the individual/officer/LEO/whatever, can potentially lose their immunity and not only will the state/governing agency be open to liability, but the “taker” themselves can also be the subject of a suit in their personal capacity. That is because acts of conversion are outside the scope of a LEO.

I have watched some of these overzealous cash seizures result in pretty significant awards to the plaintiff and the loss of employment for a LEO. Additionally, there may still be a pending action in OK involving the DA sanctioned use of a private security company to conduct traffic stops (with no CLEET certification), with the singular purpose of seizing cash from those traveling on roadways. I can virtually guarantee there will serious implications for all involved, but I’m sure that issue settled, there is no way in hell those people would let that get in front of a jury.

16

Happens all the time. There are several areas of the country well known for this type of activity. People are never charged with anything but their cash/assets remained seized.

17

Wealth Distribution

18

Happens all the time here in Reno. Here’s a small snippet below of this article: Cops Use Traffic Stops To Seize Millions From Drivers Never Charged With A Crime. I recommend reading the rest.

License, registration—and your cash.

A deputy for the Humboldt County’s Sheriff Office in rural Nevada has been accused of confiscating over $60,000 from drivers who were never charged with a crime. These cash seizures are now the subject of two federal lawsuits and are the latest to spotlight a little-known police practice called civil forfeiture…

Civil forfeiture allows law enforcement to seize property (including cash and cars) without having to prove the owners are guilty. Last September, Tan Nguyen was pulled over for driving three miles over the speed limit, according to a suit he filed. Deputy Lee Dove asked to search the car but Nguyen said he declined. Dove claimed he smelled marijuana but couldn’t find any drugs. The deputy then searched the car and found a briefcase containing $50,000 in cash and cashier’s checks, which he promptly seized. According to the Associated Press, Nguyen said he won that cash at a casino.

Nguyen was not arrested or charged with a crime—not even a traffic citation. In the suit, Dove threatened to seize and tow Nguyen’s car unless he “got in his car and drove off and forgot this ever happened.” That would have left Nguyen stranded in the Nevada desert…

Here’s a news clip with dash cam footage of the piece of shit thief with a badge.

[video=youtube_share;lMSaDu1Eh2E]http://youtu.be/lMSaDu1Eh2E[/video]

19

No different than any other gang exhorting and stealing money from people. Except they’re doing it with a badge. New article that goes into great detail. …an aggressive brand of policing that has spurred the seizure of hundreds of millions of dollars in cash from motorists and others not charged with crimes…

There have been 61,998 cash seizures made on highways and elsewhere since 9/11 without search warrants or indictments through the Equitable Sharing Program, totaling more than $2.5 billion. State and local authorities kept more than $1.7 billion of that while Justice, Homeland Security and other federal agencies received $800 million. Half of the seizures were below $8,800.

Only a sixth of the seizures were legally challenged, in part because of the costs of legal action against the government. But in 41 percent of cases — 4,455 — where there was a challenge, the government agreed to return money. The appeals process took more than a year in 40 percent of those cases and often required owners of the cash to sign agreements not to sue police over the seizures.

A 55-year-old Chinese American restaurateur from Georgia was pulled over for minor speeding on Interstate 10 in Alabama and detained for nearly two hours. He was carrying $75,000 raised from relatives to buy a Chinese restaurant in Lake Charles, La. He got back his money 10 months later but only after spending thousands of dollars on a lawyer and losing out on the restaurant deal.

A 40-year-old Hispanic carpenter from New Jersey was stopped on Interstate 95 in Virginia for having tinted windows. Police said he appeared nervous and consented to a search. They took $18,000 that he said was meant to buy a used car. He had to hire a lawyer to get back his money.

Mandrel Stuart, a 35-year-old African American owner of a small barbecue restaurant in Staunton, Va., was stunned when police took $17,550 from him during a stop in 2012 for a minor traffic infraction on Interstate 66 in Fairfax. He rejected a settlement with the government for half of his money and demanded a jury trial. He eventually got his money back but lost his business because he didn’t have the cash to pay his overhead.

20

Doubled up.