I really did not know where to put this other than maybe training and tactics but I thought I would start here. Im sorry if this is in the wrong place but I know you guys are knowledgeable in these areas.
Looking into steel plates, there are few options available. AR450, AR500 & AR600 steel. Thickness ranges from 3/8", 1/2", 5/8 and 3/4". If your wanting a steel target that can take 5.56, 7.62, 6.5 6.8 at ranges between 10-50 yards possibly even out to 75 yards and guaranteed to last around 500,000+ rounds of typical target ammo(if that is even possible) what would be the best solution? The cost of AR600 vs AR500 is noticeable just as the difference between 3/8" to 1/2" to 5/8" to 3/4", but not alarmingly significant and the weight of 3/8" vs 5/8" is around 5 pounds (based on 18"x28" plate) I am trying to find the “best bang for the buck” solution. Obviously 3/4" AR450 is a lot cheaper than 3/4" AR600 so I need to find some middle ground.
What kind of life expectancy should I expect from a 3/8" steel plate vs a 1/2" etc.?
The reason I am asking-
I am looking into having steel targets made and I would need to buy basically a 96"x60" plate and have the individual plates water jet cut.
I don’t know what the limit is, but we have 6" 3/8 plates that have been pounded for years on our range plate rack by handgun rounds. Every match they see a hundred rounds each at 10 yards.
My personal 3/8" IPSC sized steel has seen an easy 20,000 rounds of 5.56 at distances from 25 yards to 200 yards and it’s barely dinged up.
I have a 3/8 AR500 2/3 size IDPA target. It has several thousand rounds on it. M193 at close range will start to chew it up. Id say stay at least 25 yards, maybe a little further if using 20+ inch barrels, and you should be fine.
You are looking to introduce a lot of variables that are going to be important.
First and foremost, shooting .308/ or 6.anything at 10 yards is going to divot and chew up steel. Thick stuff will last longer, but that isn’t the issue really. Shooting up close, and lets face it, 10 yards is super close, each crater you make is starting to introduce the possibility and probability of pieces coming back towards you. The more cratered, the higher the likely-hood of personnel impact issues.
Once upon a time a time a jacket came off a FMJ and stuck a guy in the neck at roughly 35 yards while shooting pistol. When I say stuck, I mean it stuck in and spurted a bit when removed. That steel was not in bad shape, and it was “only” a pistol ricochet… Be careful, your bang for the buck may be better served with cheaper targets which are more disposable.
That’s something I didn’t think about so I am glad you brought it up, let me ask you a question, what is the best distance to shoot at a steel target that will eliminate or at least have a 1% chance of personal impact? Lets reduce a lot of factors and limit the ammo to just 5.56 target ammo.
5.56 can actually be more damaging to steel than .308. It’s all about velocity. You do not want to shoot steel inside 100 yards with 5.56 if you can help it. Like Stickman mentioned, as soon as the plate has divots you risk bullets and/or pieces of the plate coming back at you.
9mm or similar pistol calibers are fine much closer, but again, avoid shooting steel that has divots or craters. I have been hit by spall and jackets at 25 yards. For those of you into subguns and subsonic ammo, it also has a tendency to ricochet due to the low velocity.
I would always use at least 1/2" ar500 for rifle calibers and at least 3/8" ar500 for pistol calibers.
Minimum distance is 100 yards for rifle, but you will get cratering with m193 even though it doesn’t have the penetrator found in m855. 150 yards or even 200 basically eliminates all cratering unless you’re shooting a super hot caliber like 260 rem or 6.5 creedmoor, where I’d go 200 yards minimum.
My local range no longer has any steel at 100 because it gets chewed up and people do stupid things when it’s not theirs. The 200 yard steel takes a beating, especially from the 6.x stuff. 300-600 is all in good shape, with the stands/hangers the only things that continually wear out.
If you have close up steel. Get the slant gongs in .308. The increase the effective thickness of the steel do to the geometry of the line of fire… so a 3/8" AR500 will hold up closer to a 1/2" piece that’s perpendicular to the shooter.
I see a lot of guys shooting 5.56mm at steel inside 100 yds…well inside. Does frangible ammo negate the possibility for ricochet or steel spatter? Interested, because I, too, have caught some shrapnel in the arm shooting at steel.
Frangibles work good. Get the ones with some sort of thin jacket so you don’t ruin your barrel. Slant steel works fine with regular bullets too because it directs the spall into the ground. Shooting M193 at any steel 100 or in is going to brutalize the gong.
The slant is critical for inside 50 yard shooting. Also, I would add as Stickman suggested , a lot of variables. If your target has the ability to swing and not take the hit full on without giving it will be more tolerant of a good beating. We have pounded my slants so much that the slant has a bow to it now.
If you buy good steal, it will last a very very long time. I have stuff that is 10+ years old, I just replace the bolts or hanging adapters that wear out. When I first got my steal, I loaded 5 XM193 from about 30 yards. I was proud of my rapid fire group, still measurable today
I’ve caught jacket shrapnel in the arms and face trying to use slant steel at 25-35 yards. Once I only noticed because the blood kind of pooled around my watchband and amde a mess when I came back up with my pistol.
I’m kind of a slow learner, but when I thought to myself, gee, what if…I decided, ‘hey, I’ll shot paper inside a 100, and maybe read the safety manual Porta-Target was nice enough to include.’
Generally, with 55gr ammo you are below 3,000fps at 100 yards so it is also easier on the steel. I’ve popped holes on angled AR500 plates with Winchester Q inside 50 yards.
That stuff is smoking hot. Yeah… we have a few gongs that have perforations from M193. We leave them out at 300 or 400 yards since they’re a little more prone to dangerous fragments.
There’s a guy in my area who makes 1/2" AR500 targets. I asked lots of questions and, as Slippers said, its all about velocity. I was told 2700fps is the maximum safe velocity to avoid cratering, and he said neither caliber nor bullet construction, other than AP, were relevant. I was told to expect my plates to last for decades &/or tens of thousands of rounds as long as I stayed below 2700fps at impact. So far, so good.
I have 1/2” AR 550 plates, 12, 10, 8, and 6. I used 1/2 x 2 1/2” carriage bolts with flat washers and lock nuts. Then I attach whatever I’m using to hang it, (550 cord, bungee cords, chain) because I attach it to the carriage bolts, the plates hang at an angle. Top towards shooter, bottom of plate angled towards berm. All the spalling creates a trench in the ground underneath the plate. When shooting 300bo subs I do get ricochets, most noticeable from the sound. I’ve shoot my plates much closer than 100m. Pistol from 10-50 and rifle from 25-300 and have probably engaged the larger plates closer than that with both pistol and rifle, but I try to maintain min distance of 25. I shoot 9, 300blk, 5.56 and 308. I have some divots in my steel. They are pretty small though. Not sure if they are deep enough to redirect spall back to me, but it appears as though most spalling is trench digging under the plates. I wasn’t sure about the AR550, but having owned it for a little over 2 yrs, I cannot find any fault with them.
Not related, worth a mention, this guy in Gatesville near North Ft. Hood, sells these target hangers for T posts. Basically you slide in two T-posts from the bottom (making an inverted V, and a long T-post horizontally to hang targets from. Hammer in ground and target stand is GTG.
Also unrelated - hanging targets. I started out with $100+ worth of hangers make of heavy chains and all kinds of accoutrements for QD hookups to my eyebolts. I learned in running drills where I am shooting on the move with all my gear that I’ve had some bad shots. Couldn’t hit a 10” plate yet I hit a 3/8” chain. Go figure. Chain? Depending on rifle, a hole or clean break. (Or when I would take my sons friends out shooting) they hit more chain than plate. Now? I use 550 cord or bungee cords. Drawback to those types of hangers is plate swing. I sort of embrace the swinging plates as a challenge, and never thought I might get a spall strike. But point is with the heavy chain there was much less swing and sway.
