I had put a couple of thousand rounds through my 1.0 BattleComp since I bought it. Most of this has been Brown Bear 62gr or 55gr HP and a little federal xm193.
Yesterday I put 300 rounds of 55gr Brown Bear through it at a local range and when I got home and cleaned it I noticed a small bulge around the rim where the bullet exits the muzzle brake. It is very distinct and noticeable.
I emailed battlecomp earlier today because I had no idea what happened. I managed to take off the comp after emailing them and I noticed the deep indentation on the inside of the comp where the bulge is.
Somehow I think the bullet wobbled enough between passing through the muzzle and exiting that it nicked the edge of where the bullet exits the comp. Its weird because I would have thought this would do ALOT more damage.
I guess I am very lucky but now am not sure whether this was a fluke or ammo induced or what.
I am going to email battle comp tomorrow and explain to them the situation because this is obviously not the comp’s fault. At first I figured it might have ballooned under pressure but after removing the comp and thoroughly inspecting it something must have hit it hard on the inside.
I believe the comp was mounted straight and true but I don’t have any means of measuring this besides my eye balls the couple of trouble free thousand rounds I had put through this since I got it. As a precaution I always mark the alignment between my barrel and muzzle brake along side various other things on my rifles to verify nothing has rotated or moved and nothing seems to have moved so I am really perplexed.
I was wondering if any one out there has any input on similar experiences with muzzle devices and impacts inside them ?
The only thing I can think of if this is not ammo induced is the fact that I mounted this with a crush washer and used a lot of torque (without using a torque wrench unfortunately) to secure the comp. In the past with the PWS comp’s I had always used shims to get things lined up. Any input would be appreciated.
Seems to me that a projo could get that outa wack in that short of distance, but…I’m open to learning. I can see a baffle strike in a can as theres a lot happening.
These are not my words and I don’t claim to be an expert on bullet stability but I found this to be interesting. Could it be that an underpowered round combined with a particular twist/barrel length caused the bullet to be very unstable? I’ve seen bullets going “sideways” into paper at less than 25m out of short barreled carbines.
"Now for the next issue, what forces are making the bullet stable and what forces are trying to make it wobble or tumble? Most of us know that the barrel rifling spins the bullet which helps it spin on its longitudinal axis as it flies down range. Base drag, the drag caused by the base of the bullet also helps to keep the bullet spinning on its longitudinal axis, sort of like fletching on an arrow or fins on a rocket. The aerodynamic forces on the bullet as it flies from muzzle to target exert an overturning moment that can induce bullet wobble. This force is called the Center-of-Pressure. The Center-of-Pressure (CP) is the vector summation of aerodynamic forces acting on the bullet in flight. It is always in front of the Center-of-Gravity (CG) for a spin stabilized projectile. We really don’t need to know much about the CP except that the aerodynamic forces can be summed to act at a single point on the spin stabilized bullet in front of the CG and it will make the bullet wobble or tumble if not spun fast enough. Think of the distance between the CG and CP as a lever. The longer the lever the greater the force applied to making the bullet wobble. If the CP and CG acted at the same point the bullet would not tumble even if shot from a smooth bore. That type of bullet is commonly known as a “round ball.” Through bullet design we can work to shorten the distance between the CP and CG and improve bullet stability.
One issue that should be discussed when talking about spin stabilized bullets is that increasing MV does not always deliver enough added stability to optimally stabilize a particular bullet. The stability does do up due to the increased spin rate which is a function of the velocity squared but the over-tuning moment or CP also goes up with velocity but only in a linear fashion."
Lets see the pics - I know the “I only use brass cased ammo in my…” crowd will start bashing the steel case stuff. That is crap! Unless you are handloading every single round to QT, stop licking the windows! Even the best will mess up. Some manufacturers definition of “match” is simply a frequency of how often a round is taken of the manufacturing line to check component accuracy.
I had a similar issue in a rifle years ago…It was a tad scary as it was a 50BMG…I had purchased some surplus M33 ball bullets, which I loaded up to shoot through my McMillan. I had fired a number of rounds, and when I fired this one I felt a pin prick on my support side arm near the bicep. Looking down, I see a tiny piece of copper that just broke the skin. What the F*&^? I looked at the front of the brake, and saw about a 1/4 in. break in the weld right next to where the bullet exits.(This was a clam shell style brake) On the inside of the brake, you could clearly see where a bullet had yawed inside and struck as it exited. Turns out some of the M33 bullets had the rear lead plug “loose” in the base of the bullet. In a machinegun, no biggie. In a muzzle brake, not so good…:blink: Now I only shoot good bullets in it…usually 750 AMAX.
The rifle is a Noveske N4 Light Recce 16" with a 1/7 twist. It has had a few thousand rounds through it.
The pic I took and sent to BattleComp was a crappy one I took with my iPhone which is the only camera I have. If I had something with a macro setting it might be easier but this is not an obvious thing to see. It looks almost exactly like the picture with the comp above but the bulge is a little more prevalent and you wouldn’t know a bullet caused it right off the bat because it is a bit more uniform and not missing any metal on the exterior.
I guess this may have been luck of the draw. Is it possible that a beefier comp like a Surefire MB556K would alleviate the possibility of damage in an event the bullet core separated in such a short distance or if a bullet that yawed in a short distance struck it ?
I know my best bet is to shoot good brass cased ammo but with the amount I would not be able to shoot as often on my budget if I stuck to that. Luckily for me I have finally saved up enough for a nice .22 (now to decide between the CMMG or an MP 15-22) through birthday contributions today haha.
I do not clean from the muzzle or harpoon my barrel. The issue was observed before I got to actually going into the upper with a bore brush or jag since I like to start by blasting the upper with brakefree foam cleaner and starting at the muzzle end with q-tips normally just to clean out the built up crap. I know this is a bit OCD but it does not take long if you start with something like the breakfree foam cleaner.
What is interesting is how spoiled we become with these kick ass comps. I finished shooting a couple of hundred rounds after re-attaching the old vortex flash hider that came with my rifle originally and I was definitely spoiled by the battle comp. It re-affirmed how important proper stance and grip are.
When you removed the Battle Comp from the barrel, what kind of carbon/metal fouling buildup, did you find on the muzzle crown? Heavy fouling could alter the the muzzle crown and cause the bullet destabilize/wobble.
The carbon was cakes on the outer region of the muzzle pretty good. I was surprised to see that much in there.
I am hoping to take it to Virginia Arms on Monday and get a new comp installed. Now I just need to decide whether I want another battlecomp, surefire mb556k, or a fsc556.
I’d go with the FCS556 since its a more open design and less likely to accumulate fouling. I got one of these, http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1684 . I like that I can access the muzzle crown to clean it if necessary, without removing the brake.
Unfortunately, we’ve had problems with our website and email all week. We expect everything should be up and running by Tuesday, May 24, 2011.
Given that other devices have even tighter exit holes than we do, this is almost certainly an ammunition issue. It appears that the bullet yawed on the way out.
Still, we would like to see this one, so please contact Nikki at (650) 678-0778 on Monday, and we will work with you on the resolution.
Thank you for response and info. I did not know that other comps/brakes user tighter openings than the BattleComp that is a useful piece of info.
I will be sending this one back to you guys but this is 100% my fault so I do not hold your product responsible for any thing or expect any thing from BattleComp.
I will be sending you guys an email to the yahoo account today with a crappy cell phone picture attached.
Thank you again.
Just out of curiosity and not that I would do this but what would happen if I had just kept using the damaged battlecomp and it had a hit like the one pictured above ?
I am a right handed shooter but I did do a few transitions between left and right the other day when this happened. I wasn’t shooting from any crazy positions. Just moving between standing, kneeling, prone. The rifle was on safe while making any type of movement or when I was not actively ready to shoot at the target.
The bullet struck at 2 o’clock on the muzzle brake opening where the bullet passes through in right on the inside edge. It is almost in line with the top right hole when looking at the front of the brake.
This brake was attached using a standard crush washer. In the past I had always used shims even though they are a pain in the butt to time right.
Thanks for the answer. I was wondering if the movement of the barrel before the bullet exited the BC could have caused the strike, but now that I think about it, it’s a silly question as the bullet would exit before the muzzle could move enough for it to be a problem
I am just amazed the round did not do more damage than what I see here. There is no cut in the metal as there is in the picture above where you can see where the bullet basically split the metal. There is a bulge though.
Another thing I’m wondering is how far off that bullet might have deflected at the range.
I was shooting at 15 yards at a “Q” target and there were no flyers outside of the outline indicative of a wild shot.
I guess I am just lucky this time it did not do more damage to my rifle, me, or those around me. Just goes to show how things can go wrong when you shoot crappy ammo.
I’m going to head over to hopefully talk to Robb at Va Arms tomorrow or tuesday about taking a look at the rifle just to make sure every thing else is squared away and installing a new comp.
Thats good to know. Apparently it looks like there were more strikes inside the battlecomp when you look inside with a flashlight.
I took it to Virginia Arms and they stated there was nothing unusual with the threading on the barrel. Every one there was extremely polite and helpful as usual and you can’t beat their selection.
The rifling of the barrel still looks deep and normal and there are not obstructions inside the barrel.
I have not yet had a chance to shoot that email to Nikki but I will tonight before the day is over.
Now I don’t think I’m going to finish that case of brown bear after this incident. I still have like 500 rounds left. I’m going to relegate my cheap shooting to a .22 after I pick up a S&W MP 15-22.
markm,
Do you think it could cause keyholing or exaggerate bullet tumble with damage like that ? Have you noticed any deterioration in accuracy ? I don’t shoot past 50 yards but I was just curious.
