There are those who will be unchangeable in “bad gun purchases” for various reasons. One group that I see being a lost cause is the “I took the CCW class and still do 50 rounds every so many years and own a gun that can (note: this is not will) go a full 2 magazines without failure (which is good because I hate bothering the range master with every malfunction, you know since I don’t know what is happening or how to solve it) and can hit the man sized target at 21 feet half the time so I am ready” crowd since you have several issues to deal with.
For the most part though, if they are sensible, they can be guided. For one I think it has to viewed as guiding them which is you taking them and leading them towards good decisions and away from the bad ones, it might sound lame but if your in the mentality of schooling or teaching someone then you can often end up with resistance either because their ego is challenged, think your an ass, think your extreme, etc.
Figure out why they are choosing X item and lead them to Y with reasoning and logic, use their ego instead of challenging it, its a two way conversation not a lecture, you might be pulling the strings but design it so they think it was their decision, etc.
The odd thing is they are world class martial artists and do tons of research to find the best way to do this or that technique but with firearms… Very little. Maybe that is the way I need to approach this, compare it to what they know so maybe the light bulb will come on.
I tell you that is one thing I don’t like about Chicago guns are the devil here so there isn’t a lot of places you can go for knowledge and even fewer places for good training. When I was picking up my new M&P the clerk was telling the guy next to me that a Sig or Berreta was just as good as a Glock or HK.
Last year I was drinking at the hotel bar in Germany with five other gun enthusiast / co-workers. Two had Kimbers and three had XD-Ms.
It was painful being subtle. You just can’t go from year one to year twenty or from A to Z in one (or several) conversations with those that are new to firearms. One FFDO (great guy all around) has an XD and preaches how great that one douche bag, “the Millionaire Patriot, Ignatius Piazza” is. So, so painful to hear / discuss. Newbies are attracted to XDs and Kimbers like flies to shit. Just keep your own pudding covered up from their flies and hope they learn.
I have a couple of really smart friends that actually learned at a rapid pace by using the internet and started out with quality / reliable guns like the Glock and bypassed all of the firearms marketing campaigns that suck so many in.
when it comes to stuff like guns, cars, watches, toys etc. guys usually like to buy whatever they feel like buying.
9/10, when someone is not “balls deep” in a hobby or activity, they take the usual perspective that shiny = better. which is why people love buying bushmaster ACR’s and tac’d out deltons with tons of knock off lights/lazers and shit hanging off them.
people have to learn the hard way. let them buy the cheap flashy shit and figure out a couple thousand rounds down the line that they bought the wrong thing.
So true. I wish I had the internet when I was first into shooting (40 years ago?). It can save you money if you are patient, a good listener and good at deciphering BS. Otherwise you can bang your head against the wall and learn the hard way or hope you have experienced friends that can help you (and be smart enough to heed them).
The car world is even worse. People will drop $3k into a set of powder coated, polished “street suspension” package which is complete rubbish and rides like a rock while the same cash can get you fantastic track suspension that come with actual important data like force/velocity response dynos and a plush ride because of fantastic low speed rebound response. Seriously, folks with giant wings for “downforce” On FWD cars?! I’d take the retardation in the gun world over the retardation I see in the car world, any day.
This is a problem I’m sure we’ve all had to deal with a time or two. Ignorance won’t allow people to enjoy the quality products we all know and love, they’d rather cheap out and buy the same product 3 times over. Let them try out your great gear and hopefully they learn how much time and money they’ve wasted on inferior products.
I wish I would have had shooting friends that would have pushed me to get quality too. My first AR was a Douchmaster, and my second was a DPMS. Both of them were bought on the advice of a guy that works at my LGS that I’ve known for years. Boy was I a retard.
I finally started doing my own research and figured out how much money I wasted on both of those rifles. Now I have a Colt and I’m really happy with it, and eventually will pick up a Noveske, just because of all the good things I hear about them.
Bingo.
But it doesn’t have to be a match. They may be too intimidated by a match. The key elements include a timer, a scoreable target, and an opportunity to shoot a better gun so that performance can be compared. Those three things have proven to a couple of friends of mine that their choice of handgun was not the right one and was limiting their performance. Funny how the Glock that “didn’t fit their hand as good as brand xyz” was the gun that they shot better and faster with.
I know a guy who has gone through literally DOZENS of pistols, including no less than FIVE glocks because “they dont fit his hand.” Waah waah waah. He keeps selling them in hopes of the one finding the best gun that “fits his hand.”
He last ended on a Bersa P3000 or something shitty like that. It didnt function properly. He is now buying a glock and I am exhorting him witha ll of my might to NOT sell the gun because of some pansy subjective bullshit. By his words they are plenty accurate in his hand. I ask him what else is important in the gun beyond reliability and I get some vague handwavy bullshit that reminds me of the same criteria one would use when selecting wines. “Oh, but this one has notes of cherry blossom and a strong finish!”
I told him to shoot at least a dozen IPSC/IDPA matches before he even considers selling THIS glock…
edit: but yes, to address your point, it need not be a formalized match with other shooters. Any series of targets - even just 3 standard bullseyes at varied distances - that ave to be engaged in a specific order under time will give one an idea as to how well you can shoot under pressure.
Any chance you have something out of your personal collection you can sell them for the peace of mind? A few of my friends, I would tell them what to buy and if they buy something else that’s on them.
But a couple of my closest friends, if one was really considering buying a HiPoint or Sigma or something as their only gun, and was hell bent on it, I’d probably offer sell him my Glock 19 for a similar price as a new Sigma, then I’d go buy another one. Sure, I’d be out a few bucks, but amongst best friends (like best man in my wedding a vice versa), it’s really nothing.
i have a hard time respecting people who own shitty guns. the cost thing isn’t really even much of an issue, we’re talking firearms that will last decades and fire 20 cent+ cartridges. 100 dollars or so evaporates quickly in those terms. Besides, XDs are the same price as glocks. Taurus is a tiny bit cheaper. I’ve got less than a grand into my 2 carry guns. glock 19 and a smtih 642, both bought brand new at local shops. barely a grand into my AR15… (used and blem)
ah well, i guess you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink.
What specifically are you trying to steer them away from? A Glock is only 400 bucks or so, you really don’t have to spend much to get stuff that works great…
I would agree with the clerk.
Price should not be your first consideration, but it is also possible to get too hung up on your brand as the solution for everyone. Once you have a quality, reliable pistol, effective shooting is more of a software issue.
You can give me the most raced-out STI and give Kyle Defoor a Makarov and I promise you he will slay me every time.
They both are going to buy a Ruger LCP. I have read nothing but bad things about Rugers and was tryin to get them to do some research to maybe find a better quality weapon