How could you own a gun!??!

General General Discussion
1

Warning, this might get a little philosophical (and long)…

There are plenty of issues in the world which seem to have two (or more) fundamentally differing views. In simple terms, these views are often differentiated by default assumptions. For some people, having or doing X is the default state and they feel that there need be no reason to have or do X. For others, not-X is the default, and while X may be okay, there needs to be a really good reason for it.

I own a gun (three, actually) and I own a dog.

I love my dog. I’d say that he’s the closest thing I’ve got to family, but I consider him, without reservation, part of my family no different than if he were my kid. I get that some people aren’t dog people. I understand that. I even understand that some people have had traumatic experiences with dogs that leaves them afraid of dogs no matter what. I get that.

But whenever I’m out walking him, there are people who will literally cross a 4-lane street to get away from him. He’s 80 lbs and still a puppy so I could understand if someone was a bit intimidated and stepped off the sidewalk and gave me a wide berth. But these folks will all but run from him. Mostly, they tend to be Asian or Indian, which leads me to think it’s cultural. But even then, why is their cultural default to be terrified of dogs? I just have trouble understanding it. Perhaps I’m just blinded by my love for my dog.

I can understand that there are people out there who simply do not like guns. Most people I’ve met who don’t like guns have admitted to shooting one and thinking it was a fun experience. But largely, they’re not intrigued by them, they’re not interested by them, and they’d never own one. I can understand these people. That’s fine by me. But these are people who are largely indifferent to those who own guns. “Sure, cool, just not my cup of tea.”
I can also understand that there are probably plenty of people out there who have had some traumatic experience which has left them vehemently opposed to guns. I don’t necessarily agree with their emotional view, but I can certainly understand it.

But then there are people who seem to have the view that guns are inherently evil. Somehow there are people out there who think that the only logical explanation for having a gun is if your job puts you in harms way, i.e. a police officer. While I agree that those jobs carry a much higher risk of harm than the typical 9-5, the implied assumption these people hold seems to be that, unless you have one of these jobs, you are inherently safe AND that shooting, as a hobby or sport, is no better than animal cruelty. I’m not talking about idealogical groups, the media, or some political party. I’m talking about people who, on the individual level, think that gun ownership is somehow indicative of violent intentions and that shooting, as a recreational activity, is some grotesquely violent act.

I am not especially surprised when I find out someone’s a gun owner. To me it’s like finding out someone’s favorite sport is football or hockey or baseball. I know some people who don’t follow sports at all, I know some people who follow 5 sports at a time, and I know some people who follow only this one or that one. Big deal. Personal preference. I can argue all day as to why this sport is superior to that one but, when it comes down to it, who cares? What sports you like (or if you like any at all) is your business and why should I especially care?

But why is owning a gun, for some people, like saying, “I love violence and my secret wish is to kill tons of people some day”?

Have these people just not thought their positions through? Am I just unable to see some aspect of their position which would make me have a eureka moment and say, “Ah, now I understand”? Or maybe these are just two examples of things which “just make us all different.” Maybe these are simply things that people “just disagree on.” But I have trouble wrapping my head around it.

I know that it’s a bit like preaching to the choir, here. I know I’m unlikely to come across someone on this forum who hates guns. But does anyone have any thoughts on the matter or maybe some close friends/family who are just really opposed to guns and can help shed some light on this for me?

2

I’ll bite. My Aunt once told me after concluding the gun conversation: “Well, if I owned a gun I’de probably be in jail because there are quite a few people I would’ve killed over the years.” I was like, “Just because you get mad at people does’nt mean that you have to become violent, or kill them just because you feel offended or whatever.”
It’s not like those of us that carry guns everyday just up and shoot the first person that pisses us off. I guess some folks just don’t trust themselves with being responsible enough to carry a gun. They don’t realize that it’s more often than not, for defensive purposes. A “Just incase” type of thing. It’s just incase I HAVE to shoot someone/thing, not just incase I get angry and WANT to shoot someone/thing.
:confused:

3

Someone said this to me the other day: “Why do you own a gun? Don’t you know we have police in this town?”

To which I replied: “Why do you own a car? Don’t you know we have buses in this town?”

That ended the conversation on firearms.

4

I own guns for many reasons. One reason is for self defense. It’s alot like wearing my seatbelt when in a car/truck or wearing my helmet when riding my motorcycle. I do not wish to be in an accident. I just prefer to be as prepared as I reasonably can for a possible situation.

5

Beyond mistrust of their personal self control (something I too have heard as an anti’s motive) I think for some people, guns have a “totem” effect. They are physical symbols of “spiritual” realities. They have grown up with “cops 'n robbers” as a form of entertainment both in kids games and on TV. There are cops, and there are robbers . … you never see a legally carrying citizen depicted on TV. All citizens are helpless when the gun weilding bad guy arrives, until the gun weilding cop stops them. This motiff is repeated over and over and over in countless shows and reruns, all of which are echoes of the childrens games . . . in which there were only cop & robber, good guys and bad guys . . . sometimes victims that needed saving, but obviously they’d be unarmed. So we have a couple of generations since the radio serials transitioned into the TV drama, a couple generations since cowboys and indians gave way to cops and robbers as the binary subjects of children’s games and entertainment.

Most people, when asked if they want to be a cop . . . default to some variation on “hell no” . . . the pay sucks for the trouble, the hours suck, there is a lot of suck. I have never met a dentist that wanted to be a cop, nor a lawyer, nor anything that starts at better than 50K. So if you aren’t going to be a cop & you have this binary idea of who has guns . . . that leaves robber, complete with prison and all that jazz. You thought people (average joe citizen) were emphatic about not wanting to be cops . . . well, career criminal is something most people try even harder to avoid. So obviously they wouldn’t need or want a gun. The whole worldview of this form of anti is shaped around the idea that gun owners are either “cop” or “robber”.

The third way (citizen gun owner) seems absolutely foreign & just a little mind boggling to them.

6

I don’t know your aunt or what she’s like, but I respect that point of view. I respect someone that will say “I’d rather not have one around because there’s the very slim chance I might use it for the wrong reason someday.” But for some reason, I imagine she is probably a nice lady and was exagerrating her point.

My buddy sold his Mustang along the similar logic. He never got speeding tickets and didn’t (read: rarely) drag race, but to resist the urge and accessibe speed drove him to buy an Accord. Having a kid influenced that decision too, but he insists it was him growing up and not wanting the temptation around.

Personally, I didn’t know anyone that had legal guns when I was growing up, but I have been into cars my whole life. One reason I fell in love with firearms is their mechanical function, similar to cars. Fixing, cleaning, maintaining and driving cars/shooting firearms makes me serene.

7

I sold my motorcycle for the same reasons your buddy sold his car. I also keep a gun for the wellfare of my family. We’re safer without the bike and safer with the gun.

8

Macx,
To further illustrate your point of the entertainment media only showing the opposing poles of gun possession (cops and robbers) and not showing the citizen gun owner - usually when the citizen is shown owning a gun things go horribly wrong or there is a big family controversy. On “All in the Family” Archie made valid arguments for gun ownership (although the show was trying to portray those arguments as wrong-headed and ridiculous). When he finally got a gun the crooks showed up and took it from him. There have been many other shows where the family got a gun and then ended up thinking it was a bad idea and getting rid of it (Family Ties comes to mind which makes it even funnier to see Steven Keaton as Burt in Tremors). I can’t think of a TV show where a citizen gun owner is portrayed as a normal every day guy/girl.

I also remember Jodie Foster talking about how guns should be outlawed because there are times she was pissed off enough to shoot people. Jodie, just because you’re a psychopath doesn’t mean no one should own guns. I actually am a little more careful to avoid confrontation since I carry.

9

The problem is that many times this point of view is slightly more extreme and consists of people projecting what they fear as their own lack of judgement/self-control/discretion/etc onto everyone else.

I wouldn’t sit around and hold your breath waiting for that eureka moment, because it ain’t coming. Some people are just wired different for whatever reason. I find it hard to wrap my head around it as well, but it is what it is. Personally I think there is a whole hell of a lot of irrationality and fallacious reasoning (along with a good dose of nanny-statism) on that side.

10

It annoys me that some people will go out of their way to be offended by firearms.

I was recently told about a debate in the UK Parliament where somebody suggested that AR-style rifles should be banned because they would scare the general public. I don’t have a source for the quote but I completely believe it is possible.

I suppose it’s an understandable comment, scary black rifles putting the wind up old Mrs. Miggins down the road etc, except…

…to go shooting, the rifle is carried in a secured and non-descript case straight to the car, then driven to the secure range, where the (still bagged) rifle is carried in through locked doors and various security measures to an area where only members can enter, then unbagged and used. Pretty standard requirements for UK club-based shooters.

Old Mrs. Miggins could potentially and in some limited and unlikely circumstances see the shadow of the rifle as it was being transferred to the gun safe if she spent her time with her nose pressed up against the first floor windows peering in. Or if she tackled the evil nasty target shooter in the few steps between the door and the car and used some boltcutters to get into the case. Or if she visited the range - though non-members need to complete visitor access requests before they are allowed on site so it might take her some time and she’d need to discuss her reasons for visiting with the club first. Heck, she could even join the club so she has the opportunity to get really really scared. :rolleyes:

Still, someone somewhere is offended by the idea that they might possibly be scared because they might possibly manage to see something that requires a ridiculous amount of time and effort (and probably some “breaking and entering”) for them to see.

Leave us alone!

On a side note, I bet I have had to put up with levels of assessment, scrutiny and background checking several magnitudes higher than the people complaining have ever been subject to. One difference between ‘us’ and ‘them’ is that at least ‘us’ having FAC’s prove to the world that we don’t have any skeletons in our closet. :smiley:

Sorry, that turned into a bit more of a rant than anticipated. Apologies if it went off topic a bit there.

11

I’ve been around folks with different views about guns my whole life. I respect all reasons why or why they don’t own a weapon. What I wish is that they would all respect my beliefs and leave me and my Second Amendment right alone!! People shouldn’t stick their stinking nose into my business. I don’t try to gag and silence those bleeding heart liberals when they defame the country I served for 26 years! I have my personal beliefs about what should happen to them, but that’s for another thread. My point is just believe in what is true and always speak the truth! We have ours Constitutional rights for a reason and as soon as the American people rally around those rights, the better off our Rebublic will be.

12

I vaguely remember an episode of “Crossing Jordan” where a lawer (ADA?) shot a killer because she was carrying. The show “Bones” has a little bit of non-cop carrying too, but not too much. Also, now that I think of it, one of my favorite shows “NCIS” had at least one episode where a lady shot an attacker in her home. (I love NCIS, but Ducky’s veiws on hollow points has me a little perturbed.)

13

Guns empower people. Some people can’t mentally handle having power.

14

Excellent point. It’s the whole “Sheeple vs Sheep dogs” issue.

15

In India, China, and the middle east, dogs that are pets are kept for protection of property. That said, most dogs aren’t pets but are strays. I have a friend from Saudi who literally will run away from my dog. I’ll ask him to get acquainted with him, but he wants nothing to do with it. He’ll even jump out of his seat when the cat licks his toe.

This makes sense for people who don’t like guns, but not for people who want guns outlawed. I know people who simply refuse to ‘man up’ with anything. It’s almost like they’re afraid someone might think they’re trying to act macho or cool and get called out on it. I have one brother who got me into guns, hunts, etc, but the other one won’t come shooting with us if we begged him to. I mean, what’s so bad about shooting at a range that you can’t spend a little time with your brothers?

Of course, this was the same guy who had to pull off the road and check himself over because a car backfired, and he was afraid that maybe he got shot by a roadside sniper and just didn’t feel it yet and he was about to pass out from the paranoia…

16

I-270?

17

One of the best responses I’ve heard in a long time! LOL

18

Classic projection. If I can’t handle then no one else can either so no one should have the choice.

19

Classic projection. If I can’t handle then no one else can either so no one should have the choice

My point exactly. Under the law every law abiding citizen has that right whether they exercise that right or not. I don’t exercise the right to burn the flag but it seems others do!( Don’t get me started on that one, please!)

20

No, nothing was in the news. He was just paranoid. :rolleyes: