Was at a cook out last evening. Started BS ing with some folk and was truly disgusted by their knowledge of their industries.
One of the guys is a VP for a company that does stamping for GM. He could not answer any questions about the process or materiel, nor could he discuss in an informed way what part of the cars the stampings would be for. But he sure knew football and golf!
The other was a manager at an electrical contractor supply house, I think I know as much about quality electrical components as he did. He knew baseball, in addition to the aforementioned football and golf.
How the hell can folk get to managerial or worse yet executive levels without truly knowing the industry that they are in? Drives me up the wall.
I did get a slightly more warm and fuzzy feeling when the ladies who were involved in health care got into a rather indepth (lost me at the second set of acronyms) discussion about their jobs and how the 2 different states they operate in differed.
So I guess when the car you buy, or the breaker box you buy is AFU, because those that supply the components are clueless, and you end up needing several months worth of rehab. You will be ok.
I see your point, but at the same time you dont have to know about the product to be able to manage the people who do. Managers are good with people, logistics and making those two mesh.
Getting an MBA is valuable I think for the very reason above, there are no VERY specific MBA degrees, there are some out there specializing now. The companies want to know that you have an advanced understanding of business principles, and how to manage people and make decisions.
I could be way off on this one…just my initial thoughts.
The problem with that approach, is that if you do not know your product and industry, you are at a disadvantage with regards to any type of innovation or gains in real efficiencies. If you do not know the system intimately, and a guy from the line tells you " Changing x will give us y-ish results" how do you evaluate that? You cannot, if your previous job was as a manager at a shipping company, but you were hired into this company because you can manage and plan.
This was not an indictment of the guys, but of the corporate culture that spawned them.
I’m a project manager for a general contractor. I actually enjoy getting into the construction aspect, but in truth my job is to shuffle papers and make the finances work and keep the money flowing. Every hour I spend on the jobsite is another hour that paperwork isn’t getting done, and often means another hour later I have to stay at work that night.
I still do it, as I prefer the company of the guys in the field to that of the guys in the office, but I can easily see how some of my peers wind up knowing virtually nothing about the field. Frankly it really doesn’t matter if they do or not, and it would be virtually impossible for us to know everything.
So many people are promoted beyond their ability, its pathetic.
A job/promotion interview is usually a popularity contest, rather then a skills or knowledge assesment.
I’ve seen people promoted to get them out of the union, so they can be fired. Haven’t seen that work yet.
I’ve seen them promoted to make them scape goats down the road.
FWIW, most of these guys, will start to truly believe their own BS, and willtake on jobs way beyond their ability, with no one to cover up for them. THats when they get what they deserve.
Rob and Derek are right about management skills and practical knowledge not always meshing up and you’re right about corporate culture being out of whack.
There is an opposite end of that same problem – overly involved micromanagers that have their fingers in everything all the way down the ladder. I’m a project engineer in a manufacturing plant and our plant manager is just that - he thinks he knows everything and keeps us crippled half the time because no decision can be made without him (down the minor details like painting a line on the floor). He is very knowledgeable, but he’s surrounded himself with area managers who aren’t, so that he can lord himself over them more. The whole place is a fustercluck and is being run into the ground.
Once you get to high enough levels of management, you can’t be as highly involved in the technical side of things. Your job is to take input from the guys that do know what’s going on, and make the big decisions. It is important that you understand the implications and are informed. Kind of like the POTUS can’t know and personally manage everything that’s going on in nation.
What sucks is that corporate America has replaced leadership with management, and doesn’t understand the difference. Guys that can manage inventory like champs don’t necessarily lead people as effectively.
And for better or worse, those guys are good at talking sports and golf because a lot of their job is talking sports and golf with other guys at their level…
There is an opposite end of that same problem – overly involved micromanagers that have their fingers in everything all the way down the ladder. I’m a project engineer in a manufacturing plant and our plant manager is just that - he thinks he knows everything and keeps us crippled half the time because no decision can be made without him (down the minor details like painting a line on the floor). He is very knowledgeable, but he’s surrounded himself with area managers who aren’t, so that he can lord himself over them more. The whole place is a fustercluck and is being run into the ground.
Wholly Crap… when did you start working at the same place I do…
That’s an excellent description and is dead nuts on to my plant.
See… I grew up from the production floor on up… but our Plant Mgr did not… he came from a totally different industry (Electronic Assembly) and that is his major…so he know’s zip about printing…but yet you would never know it the way he talks…
Thank God I escaped our from under him…now I just have fun proving him wrong all the time…
It seems that nearly all guys I interact with on a daily basis are sports-obsessed. I never understood the obsession with watching sports, as I always felt there was something more interesting to discuss or actually do. I have been in numerous situations where I’ve been introduced to another guy and he immediately begins quizzing me on sports. Then I get the awkward pause and the guppy-look when I smile and say, “I really don’t follow sports.”
I would rather spend a good two or three hours at the range practicing than watching other men accomplish athletic activities.
Not to hijack this with a sociology lesson, but your response is exactly the value of sports talk.
I don’t follow it either, but sports make for a way that males from varied racial, ethnic, and socio-economic groups can interact with a sense of commonality.
I agree with you and would rather talk about something of substance, but I understand the value of the mindless sports talk.
I know the feeling and I think sometimes it goes even lower on the totem pole. Last week I went to the Yamaha dealership to order a jet kit for my 05 YZF600R. The conversation at the parts counter went like this…
Me: Hi, How it going?
Him: Good, yourself? What can I do for you?
Me: I need a jet kit for an 05 YZF600R
Him: Do you have a power commander?
Me: They don’t make one for my bike, it’s carburated.
Him: (shuffling through catalog) You can’t get a jet kit, your bike is fuel injected.
Me: No it’s not, they have never made a fuel injected Thundercat.
Him:(funny look on his face) A what?
Me: Can I see your Dynojet catalog?
Him: (talking to the other parts desk guy with a slight giggle) He wants a jet kit for a fuel injected bike.
The other guy: You can’t do that. There is no such thing.
Me: (as I hand him the catalog) Would order dynojet part# 4145 please.
Him: Wow, I didn’t know they made jet kits for fuel injected bikes.
Me They don’t, where is the cashier?
I could have made it easier on myself by walking away and ordering online, but at the point he became condescending I decided I needed to show him he was an idiot, unfortunately he was too stupid to realize how much he didn’t know.
No hijack, I find this interesting. I absolutely agree with you Rob on this matter. I know that guys seek “sports talk” right off the bat as a way to comfortably slip into social interaction. Many guys actually get scared at the prospect of having to discuss something substanitive - I don’t blame them, it’s just the way it is.
My own issue is that I simply cannot fake an interest in sports. I used to feel like a reject and even reached the point where I forced myself to memorize some stats and player names so I could participate in conversation. But ultimately, one must be true to one’s self; I’m much happier now just not caring. Probably one of the reasons I enjoy training classes so much - guys have something to talk about there that I’m interested in!
Agreed. My girlfriend lives in a suburb of West Boca Raton and I am constantly forced to hobnob with the various carpet-bagger and puddle-jumper neighbors. I have essentially nothing to say to any of them, and anytime I do weigh in on their conversations I tend to be the dissenting voice. They were all quite surprised to find out that tattooed redneck knew the definition of fungible, how it applies to the price of gasoline, and they didn’t.
My own issue is that I simply cannot fake an interest in sports. I used to feel like a reject and even reached the point where I forced myself to memorize some stats and player names so I could participate in conversation. But ulimately, one must be true to one’s self; I’m much happier now just not caring. Probably one of the reasons I enjoy training classes so much - guys have something to talk about there that I’m interested in!
I’m with ya there too. I know enough about sports gossip (Vick’s dogs, Kobe’s white girl, etc.) to keep myself entertained, and I often turn the conversation to one of sports politics and how college sports should be abolished. Hey, it’s sport right?
I usually explain that they make to much money, and think to much of themselves for me to really care. I’ll watch agame at the bar, or a BBQ, but don’t ask me the score.
Nathan,
You’d be surprised at the number of uniformed personnel and esp. gov’t civilians assigned to acquistion positions who know little to nothing about the weapons and equipment they are assigned to procure. Thus, they can be easily led astray by slick industry pros or retired General Officers on the Board of Directors for ACME Low Quality Products.
Fortunately, changes in some of the procurement laws now allow for contracts awarded according to best value vice the old lowest bidder. Problems still exist regarding what can be determined as best value if the program manager has no interest in that particular area esp. weapon systems and the optics that go with them. Keep in mind that while many of the members of this forum would love such a job, many of the people working those programs could care less as it is only a job to them.
So sadly this seems to be the case almost universally. Of course if you can “find something you love to do (and get paid for it) you’ll never have to work for the rest of your life.”
I guess it must be my, and those that I am close to, personalities. Even if you truly hate a job, learn as much about it as possible to do it well, and maybe learn something that will let you get closer to finding one you love.
