I had no idea. So I gave it a shot. I found a USGI rear sight that I didn’t even know I had a few weeks ago and put it on my beater AR. I went out to zero it today. Ammo was PMC X-Tac M855.
Squint very very hard…it’s out there.
I actually missed a round of shooting because I couldn’t see the center of the target from that distance. When it went cold again I had to take the target off and spraypaint a “man” in black behind the target to give some definition. I figured being similar to the echo target would give me a warm and fuzzy.
I had a pretty good zero at 6/3-6 (100yards) so I put it on the 400 yard setting and this was the result. I made absolutely no windage adjustments whatsoever (Because there was absolutely no wind - Read: Hot.). I was blown away. I couldn’t see any of my impacts due to mirage and just fired 12-15 well aimed shots at the target. I think some of the flyers were due to eye strain, an 8" circle is just absolutely nothing at that distance.
I was more impressed with the ammo than I was with the rifle. It’s easy to bang out targets at 300 yards with an ACOG, but I think I’m going to do some iron-sight builds more often. Too many people jump straight into red dots. I didn’t realize how much I enjoy using irons. So simple, they never run out of batteries, and you don’t freak yourself out watching them dance all over the place due to magnification.
I also zero’d my 11.5" BCM at 200 yards. No pics, but the 2 MOA aimpoint really helps with long distance shooting. I’ve also realized it is damn near impossible to shoot from the bench with a vert grip.
Aside from BUIS, this was my first time shooting a mid length with irons. I think its much better than carbine length but nothing is as good as a rifle.
You have demonstrated that all the fuss and bother we so often read from people agonizing over tight groups at hundreds of yards, spending thousands on upgraded everything and optics is a wonderful achievement, of course.
But at the end of the day, putting that kind of spread into an 8" target at 400 yards is quite sufficient for combat accuracy.
And at the end of the day, it’s more about the Indian than the arrows. I’d say you are a skilled Indian.
That is impressive grouping. Well done! Until recently, my “comfort” distance with irons has been inside of 150 yards. In all my years of shooting I can’t remember ever shooting a rifle beyond 150ish yards with irons, only magnified optics. Never even attempted it until a few months ago. Its a good feeling gaining some confidence with irons at longer range, so that relaxing feeling is pretty new to me as well. My last 36 meter zero session was with some overly hot 5.56 ammo, so I decided rather than do another zero at 36 meters with sane ammo I’d just jump right out to 300 meters and get things sorted. It wasn’t easy without a spotter.
I took this photo Monday and though it doesn’t look nearly as pretty as yours I made a few sight adjustments as I was hitting left and low initially. I thought it might have been my trigger squeeze at first so I put a few more on the 12" x 20" steel to be sure. I started to pull it together eventually. Monday was quite breezy so some of the hits are questionable. I’m going to put a few more on the fresh painted steel tomorrow just to be sure.
You only have to see to the front sight. That’s what you focus on. You just bisect the target with the front sight. That’s why the white-on-black background really helps. Even while focusing on the front sight you can still see the haze of the target centered behind the post. I will admit that I have better than 20/20 eyesight but it’s most certainly not necessary. I saw port-hole wearing Marines bust out Echo targets at 500 yards all day long.
This is why I like this forum. Most forums would ignore the 400 yard distance and iron sights and M855 and compare it to their 26" match rifle’s groups at 100 yards. I mean, that grouping is most certainly not “pretty”. But I was hoping at least here some could see the combat accuracy of the AR15 with iron sights is pretty damn good. Bravo.
Don’t compare yourself. You’re firing iron sights at 300 meters, the battle is already won. That is fantastic shooting, and I wish I had steel to ring at my range. I had a unique set of opportunities stemming from a PacDiv match that allowed me to get formal marksmanship training. Also remember, there was zero wind when I was shooting. When I say zero, I mean not even the weeds were blowing. At that point, it’s just ballistics and math. The good shooters are guys like orkan (a member here), that can stare up at a blue sky with no clouds and make a 1000 meter wind call.
A long time ago, when I toted a musket and a cutlass, we qual’ed at 500 meters or 500 yards with irons. It was just different then - not better. But I do recall when we first got the M16A2’s, we usually had no issues keeping most of the rounds inside 12-14 inches at 500 meters. If I remember correctly, Camp Hansen was a 500 yard range? It’s only been 30 years, I don’t remember which, meters or yards.
I’m still pretty comfy with irons. I built up a M16A2 clone, but I used Magpul MOE rifle furniture. It’s a lot of fun to shoot. My 25-year-old daughter calls it “Daddy’s Olden Gun”.
Euro, what you need to do is have some more fun at that distance, then challenge some friends to a shoot. You with irons, them with a RDS, and earn yourself some beer money. Free beer always tastes the best.
Thanks for the input. The steel does help to know when you are at least getting hits. I’m new to the long distance stuff with irons so I grab onto whatever I can. No so much comparing as much as prospecting acheiveable goals as I intend to push the steel further out as I get more consistent and confident. I’ve been shooting m193 so I’m sure heavier projectiles are going to come into play at some point.
Actually, this kind of performance is why I haven’t dropped the coin to chop my FSP and put on a free float rail. I have never been a particularly good shot, but I loved the 500 meter line on the KD course. You’ve had time to dial in your dope, you’re in a good solid prone, you’ve got all the time in the world . . . pew pew pew.
Well done, Eurodriver! (Hell and as far as that goes, well done JS-Maine!) Now you need a dedicated 20" musket for long range iron sighted plinking. (So do I.)
That is some fine shooting. I am grateful that while growing up, my dad would take us out to Mojave all the time, where we could safely shoot out past a mile where we’d stretch the legs on everything we could get our hands on- 22 rimfires, shotguns with slugs, varmint rifles, scoped deer rifles, iron sighted surplus rifles- It wasn’t very formal, but it was a good learning experience. Aperture & post sights are fast and effective and my favorite type of iron sight. 600 yards or less? Don’t stand out in the open and wave if we’re a feudin’
Maybe I should have put a “sarcasm off” tag at the end of my post. I kind of thought that my second paragraph made that clear, but I’ve been obtuse before.
