Iâm all for it, as long as theyâre good kids, and their parents are hopefully very involved and aware of the curriculum, but I donât like it when the govât is the one doing the teachingâŚ
On the surface it sounds like a good program to help kids get steered towards community jobs â and Iâm sure it is â but the propaganda involved in scenarios like âdisgruntled vet active shooter dayâ is pretty disturbing.
I am very offended about the whole disgruntled vet part. Having said that, I would have loved to have received this kind of training as a kid. I wasnât even allowed to play paintball. My mother hated guns so much I got in trouble once when I talked my grandparents into getting me a rubber dart gun:rolleyes:. Now she just rolls her eyes at the fact that I have a collection of guns( ever increasing) and was ever in the military.
The training that these kids were getting amounted to a dog and pony show. Teaching a veteran platoon CQB that has been working together for months is difficult. The one thing that the platoon has that the Explorers donât have is a solid foundation in the core values that make a military what it is.
Americaâs Army, Major Dad, and any other recruiting catch that is out there does not require the young recruit (youngest one is 17) physically take down a bad guy. We use simulations for mission rehearsl and training, the key to success is that the Marines are a no kidding unit and the Officers, SNCOs, and NCOs are conducting the training.
There is no doubt that this âtrainingâ that the kids got was negative training. Iâm willing to bet that they have no clue on how to do satelitte patrolling, cordon and search, buttonhooks, crisscross and numerous other skills that are needed for CQB. Even at the Embassies, where the Marines have had extensive training with CQB tactics at school, FBI Academy, and on post; once you have the badguy contained in a room, you secure the exits and wait it out. This kids went running in on the disgruntled Iraqi Vet.
So what take aways did these kids get?
All of you that have kids from 12-16 know how they interact with the world. They know it all, grown ups are a hinderance, and these kids have had the above 3 points thrown at them with a story and pictures in the NY Times.
That training had nothing to do with training, it set the kids up for defeat. Any senior that sets his or her subordinate up for defeat should immediately be taken out of a leadership position.
Everyone that feels that kids doing CQB is okayâŚyou really need to check the dope on your sights.
Everyone is in agreement about the disgruntled vet, this has been a needle in my eye all day. The thing that I was missing is the whole CQB type training, these kids are truely f*$%ed because they think they know what they are doing.
Think back to whatever training you have had, whether it be military, police, sports, or academic courses. There was always some billy badass that knew his shit didnât stink at the beginning of the course. Billy badass usually didnât make it or was a hinderance to his peers.
All these lords of the fly are going to be Billy Badasses concerning CQB. This isnât about teaching a kid self defense or marksmanship. Itâs about giving the kids a false sense of knowledge that can get them or someone else killed.
I agree 100%, it gives them a false sense of empowerment. And about a billy badassâŚOne Moto Devil dog in the CQB class before mine, decided to âmilkâ a flashbang. The dummy lost his thumbâŚand the rest of his hand was pretty mangled as wellâŚ
I canât speak for the ones in the article, but when I was an Explorer our local SWAT/Task Force guys taught us CQB. I was spoiled for military service after thatâŚand I found myself quite bored even through MOUT training. Nobody in my MP unit knew how to properly, carefully, and safely conduct a building search.
We worked our 16/17/18 year old asses off to get it right and it was extremely intense with the specops vets playing OPFOR during our exercises. We had a thirst for knowledge and utter respect for our trainers. We never played âdisgruntled vetâ scenarios, but we did have all sort of things thrown at us. We did everything the sworn officers did, including submission/restraint/handcuffing. Our regular officers used to volunteer to train with us because of the realism. Granted we were a small dept, but I know of others who did the same as us. I also wasnât some oorah Devil Dog, but I received plenty of door-kicker training in the Army. The only significant difference between Explorers and Army was the select-fire switches, belted ammo, and grenades. 
I think itâs a much better venue to teach Teamwork and Responsibility to todayâs youth. As long as those who are training them are doing it properly and are ingraining good habits as well as positive values, Iâm all for it.
Hell, Iâd even volunteer to play OPFOR if we had a similar program here. Just because DHS is teaching it, it doesnât mean that itâs a bad thing. Letâs face it, at this age most individuals are well on their way to being either Wolves, Sheep, or Sheepdogs. The chances of someone becoming a Wolf or Sheep is probably reduced after participating in something like this.
Iâd rather see these young men and women doing something like than most of the other alternatives out there (drugs, gangs, video games, couch exercises, internet surfing, etc.). JM2CW.
This looks like somthing i could get into, too bad they ruin it with things like âYou have to take out the disgruntled vetâ crap. And the fact that unless you have a VERY good teacher the possibility for setting these kids up for failure is alarmingly high. I think the majority of the kids nowadays going into this are gonna come out as billy badasses and end up gettin somebody killed. Theyre gonna think their some hot shit on a stick because they used a plastic shootin toy in a simulation. I believe potential in this program is there, but anymore youd have to do alot of checkin around to see if the kid needs to be in it or not. I.E whether or not theyre just another gang bangin wannabe, thats gonna use the tactics learned here in an ill manered way. As mentioned above, the propaganda introduced into this program will do more to distort and twist the minds of these kids than the benefit of training is worth. If you could some how get a group of for shure honestly interested (interested in LE or MILI. application), appropriate aged and serious kids in this and do away with all the crap and propaganda i can see how this would be a whole lot more effective than things like the JROTC at my school.
Oh and Smuckatelli, There are a FEW of the teens out there that dont think we know it all. Keeping an open mind to every thing and realizing how simple minded i am at times is what helps me to learn. I try an swim against the stereo typical view of teens these days:D
i think you guys are making something out of nothing. these explorer scouts are not going to be ruined human beings because they got some semi-professional airsoft training. do you not realize that airsoft is basically an organized sport these days? the only reason this instance is special is because its DHS.
Agreed.
Weâre not talking about some field skills training. We are talking about real life CQB training. Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures that are used by a trained unit. Using airsoft does not excuse DHS from exposing these kids to something that they should never have received.
Do you not realize that Marines use simulation (paint rounds) when they are conducting this type of training?
and we used MILES in the Army, same principle. i just dont see a huge problem. for sure, theyâre not getting the proper progression of training- all the necessary training for training, as i believe you talked about. if and when they sign up for whatever LE/mil they get into, theyâll realize pretty quick they dont know shit, especially once they start CQBT and spend 45 minutes at a time in the dying-cockroach. for those who still dont get it, itâll be the job of their instructors to recognize whoâs head is too big and pop it.
Iâm not sure if kids are psychologically mature enough to do this kind of training. I can understand running them through a mock academy and letting them observe some dog & pony shows (SWAT/ERT, K9, Airwing, etc), but actually participating in mock violent scenarios is quite another thing. Could this further desensitize them to violence? I donât think the Scouts/Explorers should be giving out Major League Infidel & Door Kicker Merit Badges, but thatâs JMHO.
God forbid one of these kids ends up as an active shooter⌠Besides background checks, do they screen them psychologically?
Let kids be kids and let them play amongst themselves, but I feel very uncomfortable with training them in active shooter/suicide bomber scenarios with realistic victims, blood, etc.