Wanting to build an HK 416 clone. I am sure somebody has done it. Need info/specs.
You are going to have a hard time building a clone since no other upper has a rail that attaches in the same fashion. You can get a piston upper, you can get the diopter sights, you can get the lower with the pictograms and the TD grip but you won’t really be able to nail the upper.
uh…what?
right
wait…
huh?
There is a kit 4 sale on Gunbroker…
Just buy that… It Includes the complete unfired upper, buffer, spring, pistol grip and mounting hardware, original box, manual, sling, and mag…
Then get a custom AR lower receiver from Orion arms engraved as an exact replica of a factory HK 416 with the addition of the SBR ATF engraving at some discrete spot, like inside the magazine well…
Next fill out a form 4 & pay the tax stamp for a SBR, get a sign off from the ATF, and you are in business…
It is 100% doable… It only takes the desire to do it and the $$$ to make it happen…
B
Please post some pics when you are done…
wouldnt personally recommend that. i dont believe the atf would either.
Its 100% legal to mark it there… The ATF would not have a problem with it… You may chose not to, but that is just your personal preference, not a legality issue…
B
PART 179—MACHINE GUNS, DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES, AND CERTAIN OTHER FIREARMS
Par. 3. The authority citation for 27 CFR Part 179 continues to read as follows:
Authority: 26 U.S.C. 7805.
Par. 4. Section 179.102 is revised to read as follows: § 179.102 How must firearms be identified?
(a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows:
(1) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped
(impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not
susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other
firearm. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping
(impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and
(2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped
(impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a
manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after
January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The
additional information includes:
(i) The model, if such designation has been made;
(ii) The caliber or gauge;
(iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;
(iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the
manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; and
(v) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized
abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of business. For additional requirements relating to imported
firearms, see Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134.
(b) The depth of all markings required by this section will be measured from the flat surface of the metal and not the peaks or
ridges. The height of serial numbers required by paragraph (a)(1) of this section will be measured as the distance between the
latitudinal ends of the character impression bottoms (bases).
(c) The Director may authorize other means of identification upon receipt of a letter application from you, submitted in duplicate,
showing that such other identification is reasonable and will not hinder the effective administration of this part.
(d) In the case of a destructive device, the Director may authorize other means of identifying that weapon upon receipt of a letter
application from you, submitted in duplicate, showing that engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) such a weapon would be
dangerous or impracticable.
(e) A firearm frame or receiver that is not a component part of a complete weapon at the time it is sold, shipped, or otherwise
disposed of by you must be identified as required by this section.
(f)(1) Any part defined as a machine gun, muffler, or silencer for the purposes of this part that is not a component part of a
complete firearm at the time it is sold, shipped, or otherwise disposed of by you must be identified as required by this section.
(2) The Director may authorize other means of identification of parts defined as machine guns other than frames or receivers and
parts defined as mufflers or silencers upon receipt of a letter application from you, submitted in duplicate, showing that such other
identification is reasonable and will not hinder the effective administration of this part.
(Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number 1512-0550)
If you can help me by clarifying something I’d appreciate it.
Can you show me in your post of the BATFE document, anything that supports your assertion?
I’m not reading it. Specifically I’m seeing some disqualifying terms & statements in there. IE the verbage conspicuously placing & the not susceptible of being readily obliterated. . .
Don’t confuse the requirements of section (1) serial number; with section (2) other markings (manufacturers)… If you really wanted to you could mark all the section (2) info on the barrel under the hand guards, but then that barrel would be married to that receiver more or less forever…
And I am not sure how you think info engraved inside the magazine well would be obliterated unless you are using magazines constructed before the international ban on industrial strength tungsten carbide in AR magazine construction…
B
You are incorrect in both points & guiding your members down a real craggy slope. The manufacturer markings must go on the serialized portion of the weapon. On an AR that is the lower receiver. TIG it together & maybe you have some merit @ that point.
As to wear inside the mag well. On issue weapons that have seen extended use or less than optimal range environments I’ve seen dozens of occasions with magwells that are worn & scratched on the interior. It does & will happen especially with more dynamic use.
Well maybe in Bazarro world, but here in the USA laws are codified and written in English…
I have seen issued weapons that look like they have been sand blasted… Whats your point… If you engrave it to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch you are fine… Additionally, in a really harsh environment, I bet the inside of the magazine well is far more protected from abuse than the outside…
Is that letter to you directly or are you shithouse lawyering it? Don’t get me wrong. There’s a time & a place where that works. I don’t think NFA is a real good arena to test it though.
I’ve noticed you also completely disregarded the “conspicuous” verbage specifically pointed out. Was it missed or did it nullified your argument pretty quick so it was best to avoid it from the get go?
Where is the serial number on an HK94? Is the barrel permanently attached to that portion? Oh yeah.
The question posted here was in reference to an AR15 receiver. Is the barrel permanently attached to the serialized portion of the firearm? hmmm
Note that the letter you posted has what seems to be minimum 2 clarifications from the NFA branch section.
To all concerned, if the letter isn’t addressed specifically to you, specifically to the firearm your inquiring about, enjoy the frustration.
If you want to make the attempt to validate your own ideas by following the recommendations yourself I’d be interested in seeing how that turns out for you. Please let me know how you work out the physical difficulties of getting the engraving/stamping requirements inside of the mag well.
Its simply the law, not voodoo… If you don’t like the law, write your congressman, or petition the ATF for an administrative ruling, but if you can not understand English I can’t help you…
So I guess those Hacks a Remington, who put the serial number on the receiver, and their name, city, state, and the caliber information on the barrel do not know what they are doing either…
Well I was satisified when I showed you the code, but since you were not satisified with that, I followed it up with some letters that ATF technical branch has written on the subject…
Again, these are not ideas, ITS THE LAW… If you follow the regulations set forth in Par. 4. Section 179.102 of the code, you, or anyone else will be fine… Better yet, if you are still not satisified, write down your worries in a nice letter addressed to the technical branch of the ATF and ask them to clarify it for you again…
Use a professional engraver… It will not be a problem…
B