Hi, I currently own an HK P30 but I don’t like the trigger, specifically I don’t like the way it breaks. Whenever I fire the gun I have to be very conscientious about squeezing the trigger correctly, espically when it comes time for the trigger to break. However, today I went and checked out the Sig Sauer p226 Elite with SRT (short resest trigger) trigger and although the take up was just as long it broke alot cleaner and I didn’t have to focus nearly as much attention on squeezing/breaking the trigger properly, I could simply do it out of muscle memory. What i’m wondering is, will my better handling/the cleaner breaking trigger of the Sig Sauer have any effect on my accuracy and firing speed?
I should note; the Hk fits into my hand better, and I’m guessing that the HK has a better barrel too. I also have owned my HK for over a year and a half and have dry fired (with snap caps) extensively over that period and I still have to focus on my trigger pull more than I should when firing.
FWIW: Have you considered a Bruce Gray reduced reset carry perfection job? I have a P30 tuned by Bruce’s shop and it breaks clean and the reset is sweet.
With good technique, I think that all the major platforms (Glock, Sig, M&P, HK) can be shot well, with small performance differences that only show up in competition or intensive drills, and fall into the category of inconsequential differences. That said, with tens of thousands of LEM rounds, I think the HK LEM requires more effort than virtually every other major platform to shoot well, is the most unforgiving of bad technique, and requires constant practice to maintain that ability. Especially so, support hand only. Of course, there isn’t a more accurate, more reliable, higher build quality pistol made.
My P30 has a terrible trigger and I dislike the way it feels in my hand. But I’d take it over the “Elite” version of the P226.
I would consider the P226/MK25 instead of the Elite.
I’ve used Sigs since the 90s. I’ve always shot them well, even in DA mode. However, the first time I tried out a P30 DA/SA I shot it just as well as my Sigs. The triggers are close enough in feel that my muscle memory carried over to the H&K with no problem. In fact, I actually shot the P30 a little better as the grip contoured to my hand better allowing for a more stable shooting platform. DA/SA guns just take more time and ammo to master. Most shooters I’ve followed over the years have needed to process several thousand rounds, spread over at least a couple of dozen training sessions to really get muscle memory down. Just like fitness training, it is a process of training and rest, training and rest, spread over time. However, once you get the muscle memory down, it becomes pretty second nature.
I think that the P30 is an all around better gun than Sigs in any flavor.
I had one and sold it due to the long gritty trigger that sample had. My wife thought I liked it and missed it, and bought me a P30S last year as a gift. While this versions trigger is better, I still greatly dislike the weapon overall.
I also make sure to convey why I get rid of certain guns now so family members don’t gift me another one.
There isn’t much practical difference in SA performance between the two. The SRT has of course has a shorter reset, but HK’s reset is more forceful. Targets look the same to me. The DA action on HK leaves a lot to be desired, however, the Sig’s one is still 10 lbs of long pull. While HK is harder to hit fast on a first shot, I am not sure that the difference is that big that you’ll be able to hit with Sig when you can’t with HK. Of course, even if you shot DA shot better with Sig, you’d still be trading one set of problems for another. There is a number of shooters doing well with DA/SA P30. I am not a great shot, but I only give up .20-.25 seconds on a first shot comparing with my 5.25 lbs Bruce Gray LEM. I’d stay with HK. I’d also consider taking a class from instructors who know how to shoot DA/SA guns.
DBZ: if you decided to sell your P30S, drop me a pm; I might be interested depending on circumstances.
Precisely. That speed advantage is usually only there when a shooter is having a good day, and when they are warmed up. Even then, a little extra speed is NOT a force multiplier in a pistol fight. Delivering accurate shots while making good decisions to avoid taking hits yourself is what matters. If you are drawing down on someone who is doing the same, you’ve both lost the fight in that both of you are about to be full of holes, regardless of who is faster with the first shot.
The answers already provided warrant some consideration. I agree that the HK is an excellent firearm and I would recommend sticking to it as well. I have heard that Bruce Gray can improve the trigger on any HK pistol. However, it is up to you if the cost is justified. In looking at his website, there is a wait time and many of the packages are not cheap. Perhaps someone can provide an approx. price of the tuning job for an HK pistol.
I have been seriously considering purchasing a P30 in 9mm. At the moment, I have been using an HK USP Compact in 9mm. It is a great pistol and very accurate. The trigger in single-action is very clean and crisp, and comparable to the 226 9mm pistols that I own.
I would continue shooting your P30 for ay least a thousand rounds and if doesn’t improve and smooth out (or perform to your needs), then consider the Bruce Gray trigger mods or switching-out to another model or brand.
P.S. It was not mentioned, but do you have any type of formal training under your belt? If not a basic class or short one-on-one training session could be very useful in furthering your skill and proficiency.
Also, regarding the difference in the barrels between the SIG and the HK, the P30 uses the polygnal rifling whereas the SIG is a standard carbon steel barrel. The HK barrels like Glocks are typically easier to clean when used with jacketed bullets. That said, the SIG 226 in 9mm has been one of the most accurate and reliable pistols that I have owned. The two I regularly use have yet to exhibit any malfunctions after several thousand rounds of firing.
If you have only one pistol the trigger might make a difference and in that case the best advice is to practice with that pistol.
If like me, you have a significant number of pistols you’ll soon learn that each trigger is different and you need to adapt to them, not adapt them to suit your tastes. I continue to be amazed at how much conversation time triggers get on this and several other of these forums. Second, everyone is different and what might be a great trigger to you will not be to someone else.
Oh and for those complaining about the DA trigger pull on these polymer auto’s, you seriously need to practice with a heavy DA revolver…Learn to shoot that well and all these auto’s will seem not an issue.
I chalk pistol trigger talk up to inexperience or the competition guy who’s 1. Very good and trying to squeeze every last tenth of a second or 2. Sucks and is looking for something to blame for his suckness.
Either Sig or HK will both be wonderful pistols, HK has always had the edge for me and even more so since Sig started down the “We’ve got a special model for every occasion” path.
If you could buy better performance there would be so many more great shooters in this world. Sadly you cannot. If you suck with your HK’s stock trigger you will still suck with a nicer trigger. Sorry.
How many live rounds have you run through the HK? How many did you run through the Sig or did you run any though it? Will you be faster or more accurate with the Sig? Impossible to say unless you run some intensive drills with both. The target and clock will answer your question for you. If I were to guess, I would guess no. The HK trigger isn’t great, but it’s usable. I agree that Sig has a smoother trigger, but if I had to choose between a new Sig and new HK, I would choose the HK. I think it’s a more durable gun. Trigger doesn’t make a huge difference between the two for me and accuracy is close as well with the HK being a little more accurate, so I wouldn’t see a need to change. Btw, that’s from someone that owns a German Sig P226 and likes the P226. Back in the pre-226R days, I would say it’s a toss up. Now, I think HK makes a better gun. Just my opinion and YMMV.
Carry package is 325. They prefer you ship UPS and not use Fedex. The whole pleasure gets into 500 range, unless you have a friendly FFL to ship it USPS. Or roughly 2500 rounds of practice ammo.
I shoot same or faster splits with rental DA/SA than with my reduced reset (half of the stock reset distance) LEM. My shooting buddy regularly out shoots me during pin shoot matches, which are nothing other than splits, with his stock LEM. People who say that short reset is so important have no personal experience of comparing guns with different reset distances but identical otherwise.
To say reset matters, you have to compare two identical guns that only differ in one parameter - reset. Tell me how this worked out with guns you listed above - did somebody lengthen the reset on your Sigs, Glocks or 1911s, cause their stock resets are pretty short?
Actually I had my 226 get the SRT treatment and the improvement is noticable and yes I have compared it to my friends stock 226. To say it does not matter shows a lack of understanding on the mechanics of shooting.
Pat
There is significant shrinkage of your reference group of five different brands/types to one, once we start talking specifics. But, beyond that, what is “noticable”? Is it a level of an argument we’re having? I on my side have multiple short-format drills, results of IDPA matches, results of pin shoots, all of them timed and scored, but that’s nothing comparing to “noticable”…
I am so eager to be educated by you on that matter that I am besides myself :sarcastic:…
You seem to not understand what I am trying to convey here: I am a guy who spent a half thousand USD on a LEM trigger job which ultimate selling point is a reset reduction, just because the dogma is “short reset is soo important”. Do I like it how it feels - yes. Does it allow me to move between different platforms and not short-stroke the trigger when I return back to P30 - yes. Would I take a short reset over long one - yes, of course I would if it came free. Has it allowed me to shoot faster splits comparing to twice long stock reset of DA/SA P30 - no.
I have no interest in convincing you that my experience is true; after all, you’re the one who understands mechanics of shooting here. I am simply putting this out here for an unbiased reader to digest.