Hk 416 user feedback?

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
21

At best the parts are going to equally as durable.

Trade uppers with someone who wants a heavier barrel. Quicker and easier.

22

The HK416 was developed with the 10.3" barrel because of issues getting the MK18 to run reliably and durrability issues with the MK18 at the bequest of the top US gunfighting unit who put the most rounds through their guns. If the HK416 did not offer tangible benifits, it would not have been adopted and would just been a flash in the pan weapon that would be sitting on a shelf in HK’s corporate headquarters next to the 3 or 4 P-7s in .45 ACP.

23

This site always amazes me at the wealth of knowledge and experience here. Very interested in the 416 keep it coming guys.

24

Mine was excellent. I sold it to pick up some quick cash when I was buying a building. I have Noveske Mk18 on top of my M16 and it is nearly as reliable, but not quite. And I have noticed the DI seems to speed up quite a bit more supressed. The HK was heavier, but no big deal unless you really started adding crap to the front end.

I will pick up another one if I can ever find one at a decent price. I have been in on a buy for about a year but the guy seems like he is promising more than he can deliver.

25

Any noticeable improved capabilities? If you get one that works, you can go quite a bit w/o cleaning it.

Any shortcomings? Almost too many to list. Heavier, increased recoil impulse (if you don’t immediately notice the difference between a .12 and .16split… beyond your tactile skills to assess), hotter fore-end, louder suppressed, inconsistent accuracy, inconsistent QA/QC, over-gassed/high cyclic, magazine finicky, parts are 5x the price and hard to get(even for gov customers), HK states their bolts & barrel only good for 10K rds… & HK customer service blows

What works well? In a suppressed one with proven mag and ammo combo, you can go a few thousand rds w/o cleaning

What doesn’t work so well? often unit peculiar remedies (think buffer and spring, etc…) to being overgassed are required. Mags better have strong springs. some lots of mk262 or browntip with a longer OAL have feed issues

How is F/A performance? recoils more.

Suppressed performance? due to gas porting, louder than a comparable DI, 100-175 rpm increase, in some cases empty mag will not lock bolt back

How is parts life? No better than a regular M4A1. expect bolt breakage IVO 7500-10K, barrel cook out 8-10K

I expect the two largest USG users to be changing platforms soon.

26

Thanks, Dano. I really appreciate your first hand experience. The issues with the HK416 is something I have been trying to get to the bottom of. I am serious about trying to figure out what is going on!

I am considering selling some guns that I shoot less and using the money to either get a SCAR heavy or another HK416 upper. I have a fair amount of spare parts for the 416, including a spare bolt and multiple spare extractors and firing pins.

I mean, if the gun has so many issues and performs no better than an M4, why did the top US gunfighting unit in the US Army adopt and and why do they continue to use it?

Previously the HK416 got some very positive reviews on this messageboard. Here are some previous posts regarding the gun from various SMEs on the board, including yourself:

and:

thanks

27

Wow, I’m curious also Ed…about the bolt/barrel/parts life that is. 8-10k on barrel life and 7-10k on bolt life is considerably less than the feedback I’ve gotten, or would expect from Hk.

The plot thickens…:smiley:

28

I’d really like to have an H&K myself…if I could get a true 416 semiauto version. I’m really not interested in a $2500, 9lb, MR556 with no chrome lined barrel. Now if I could stick a Noveske N4 barrel on there…that would be the ultimate combo in my opinion.

29

I find it odd that everybody who was a proponent and supporter of the 416 system two years ago is now turning their back on it.

KevinB didn’t like it either from what I remember.

30

My thoughts also. This contradicts lots of previous info posted by SMEs including some of the same SMEs.

This is why I am trying to get info that makes sense.

31

KevinB actually had one or two 416 uppers, but if I remember correctly, he sold them around the time he went to work for Knights Armament.

32

Ed L.,

Just speaking for myself here. The first time I fired the 416 was around 6 years ago. It truly seemed like a good system. My exposure was limited, but after watching thousands of rounds go through it, I was impressed.

My guess as to why you are seeing a change in opinions is due to the fact that the weapon has grown older and as it has, the issues have started to pop up. Maybe it’s due to shitty QA/QC on behalf of HK?

Maybe the initial love affair based on initial performance was good, but the honeymoon ended when the VD started popping up.

I am sure that Danno will chime in eventually and I am interested in hearing the reasons as well.

At the end of the day I will stick with my DI gun. I am always convinced that a solid DI gun will perform if you use quality parts and do it right.

33

Thanks, IraqiGuns,

At the time they were praising the HK416 they certainly had examples that fired lots of rounds without exhibiting these problems. They certainly had HK416s that were subject to heavy use. And the gun wasn’t just adopted without heavy tests that would have revealled these issues. This makes it more confusing.

Maybe the QC has gone downhill as you suggest, or maybe the guns with the problems heve been fired beyond their service life.

34

Where do I get a NAVSPEC cat? Does LMT make one?

35

No.

Cats like that are only available through special training. Here is a declassified photo of the cat completing CUDs training (Cat Underwater Demolition training).

36

For the record, I think the 416 represents the the best piston in a M16/M4 ever. With that said, the early 416’s and the 416’s made now are not the same in quality.
On the flip side, I asked a current active duty SEAL how their MK18’s are doing and he said well.

So would I take a 416? Yep, sure would. Would I expect it to be TWICE as good as a properly setup MK18? No.

C4

37

Thanks man for the excellent post.

The part in bold was just verified to me recently.

C4

38

I think the answer is really quite simple. When the weapons were tested, they were made in small batches and HK used better materials.

As they mass produced this weapon, they looked for ways to save money and cut SOME corners (as does EVERY gun manufacturer). My guess is that they cut to many corners and now have a gun that is finicky and not as reliable as some DI guns.

SO this is why you have professionals saying one thing and then saying something else years later. They were RIGHT in both instances.

C4

39

Thanks for chiming in Grant! Your explanation is very understandable…it’s easy to see how that could happen especially once many foreign countries started adopting the 416 platform and production needed to increase sharply. Still, Hk needs to get their poop in a group it seems.

While the numbers on parts life being thrown out now don’t really seem below the norm for a comparable DI rifle…we know that the system, and HK can do better as shown with the earlier 416’s.

I wonder if the start of issues could be traced to a particular year or two…and then proceeding forward. I, for example, have an AF coded upper which is 2005 production…and I believe to be one of the earlier examples. I’m not sure what the earliest models are dated though.

40

I was in a unit that got 10" 416 uppers around 2005. I believe these may have been some of the early run 416’s.

Here are a few observations:

You must install the red buffer spring and 416 buffer.

Sometimes we would get a bolt overide / FTF, even with the correct mag and buffer system. Remember, we were using our original Colt M4A1 lowers. I am not sure if play between the upper and lower was an issue.

Sometimes the BCG would begin to wear the lower in the area near the buffer detent. This did not happen in all cases. My personal theory is play between the upper and lower or guys not correctly reinstalling the receiver extension when they add an aftermarket single point plate.

Small parts are an issue. It has a small, easily lost/bent firing pin spring. Unlike a reguy

HK in VA gave us great customer service. I believe our unit rep spoke with The LAV directly on a few issues.

It is front heavy - and gets heavier as you add lights, lasers, and suppressors. The up side is the weight sits, more or less, between your hands. It sort of reminds me of an Uzi in this way.

In my unit there were 3 camps - guys who worship the 416, guys would rather have the new style Mk18, and guys who have no use for a 10" bbl on a rifle. Personally, I was just fine with my original skinny bbl M4A1. But, I also kept using the PEQ-2 and EOTech 552 even after we got the PEQ-15 and EOTech 553.