These photos are of the SF personnel just before the Son Tay prison raid in 1970. What kind of scopes are those on the CAR-15’s/XM-177’s?
Ah, the first use of red dot sights in combat. At least that I am aware of. I’ll bet those early red dot sights are now worth money:eek:.
Thanks for posting that.
Are they some sort of big older type Armson OEG?
IIRC LAV said that the original red dot sights used on the Son Tay raid were Armson OEG (Occluded Eye Gunsight).
Apparently tough to find on the collector market because they were also featured in the original Star Wars movie.
I have no special knowledge here. However, they look to me (from the photo) like an old Burris pistol scope.
BTW, these pics are great. TOS has a great sticky of historical photos like this.
They are the original Singlepoint Occluded Eye Gunsight.
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Trijicon maintained production of the OEG up until about a year ago. You can still find them brand new if you search.
Could be GAU-5’s, but why would Army SF be using USAF weapons?
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What an awesome operation. The debrief from that was incredible to read. We’ve had a couple of veterans from that op come by the schoolhouse for a visit. Good bunch of cats.
In my opinion you guys are right on with the ARMSONG sight
One of thouse men is my uncle Todd he was just laid to rest with full military honours last month he was 63. I would have loved to ask him for you guys.
There were many variants, but is this the one in the photos?:\
Later model Armson OEG
Apparently, from what I was told, they used two types of 1st gen RDS, Armson and Singlepoint due to availability. The photos show only one type. It was a COTS purchase.
Singlepoint. Would I get in trouble if I linked TOS?
This. I used to own one on an SP-1 many moons ago…
Tomac
They are Singlepoints not Armson sights
The Singleponts were made by Normark.
Armsons were made later.
The guns used in the rail were GAU-5A/As (Colt model 630s).
They are not XM177E2s (Colt model 629s)
These are the same weapon (both 11.5" barrels) except the 630 doesn’t have a forward assist and the 629 does.
A GAU-5A is not the same weapon as a GAU-5A/A.
A GAU-5A is a Colt 610 and has a 10" barrel, a partial fence lower, no chrome chamber, and no grenade launcher mounting ring.
Some of these guys later became instructors at SOT out at Mott Lake. I went there in 1979 and they gave us a little debrief over beer and deer (an instructor hit a deer with his car and we cooked it up). From what I remember, the red goggles were to protect their night vision.
I asked about the rumor about Russian advisors being there. One guy told me that he did see some rather tall guys with round eyes, but that they didn’t stop to check their passports after they killed em.
I think they also took home a baby water buffalo, but I was a bit too drunk to remember the details. Those SF guys could out drink us young Rangers… lesson learned!
Interesting story, not directly related to the original question.
There were (maybe still are) a lot of retired Son Tay Raiders working at the Special Warfare Center. When I was at the Q Course ('98-'99), one of them told us this story:
Due to security concerns, it was decided that no personnel currently in VietNam would be pulled for the Son Tay project. They didn’t want a bunch of guys mysteriously disappearing, and people asking questions.
So, one day all of the SF guys on Fort Bragg got instructions to meet at a certain time at a theater on Smoke Bomb Hill. Once everyone was seated, an officer got up on stage and gave a speech to the effect of:
“Gentlemen, we are looking for volunteers for a highly classified and dangerous project. If you are interested, come back and be seated in one hour. If you are not interested, thank you for your time. Oh, and there won’t be any per diem.”
The guys who came back started training and became the Son Tay Raiders.