I’m wanting to buy my first AR. Been in the military for 25 years, and have infantry and SWAT experience, so I’ve shot tons of weapons. I’m wanting a general purpose AR that I can beat the hell out of, but I’d like to get into some 3-gun matches eventually, so I need decent accuracy too. I’m looking hard at a Noveske N4 Barrel 16 inch lo-pro; and I’m also considering the KAC SR-15. I have right at $2K to spend, and I only want to buy one AR. I was all set to buy one of those two rifles, than I started looking into Daniel Defense. I can get a M4V5 for about $1400, am I really getting $600 more in value with the KAC or Noveske over the DD or a rifle at a similar price point? I know the Noveske barrels are supposed to be some of the best, and the KAC is supposed to shot smooth and has outstanding reliability; but considering the build of the entire rifle are those two rifles really $600 better?
Have you looked at Colt? The 6920 can be found for around 1100.
DD and you’ll have money left towards an optic.
I have looked at the Colt, and have been issued several over the years. This may sound stupid, but I absolutely HATE the 203 notch in the barrel. Looks ugly, and I don’t need it.
And I do have more practical reasons for not going with the Colt, carbine length gas instead of mid-length, and shorter handguard options. Not for the shortage of rails (all I’m going to mount is a light anyway) but because I like to move my support hand further down the barrel when possible. Hard to fight that USMC muscle memory! I have considered buying a Colt and adding a lo-pro gas block and mounting a longer handguard, but I’d rather buy something that I don’t have to “fix” later.
DDM4 v5. Don’t know what your time frame is, but PM Grant at G&R and he can get you a better price than $1400 … though he quoted me a fairly long wait along w/ the good price.
OK, thanks. I got the $1400 price from the Military discount price at Rainier Arms, even better if I can go lower than that!
Hello,
If I had your money to work with, I’d buy a Special Production AR-15 from Specialized Armament http://www.specializedarmament.com/catalog/Special_Production-2-0.html
I have a SR 15 and you won’t regret purchasing it. Can’t miss pick.
I don’t have any experience with Daniel Defense, but I have a Noveske Light Recce and I got a KAC SR-15 upper yesterday. I don’t use guns for a living, but I like to buy quality. I believe that the purchase of a firearm is the inexpensive part of gun ownership. Ammo costs can quickly eclipse the initial purchase price so it makes sense to buy as much gun as you can afford.
Since I just received the KAC yesterday I haven’t yet shot it. I will tell you this, the balance of this upper when mated to a lower with a CTR stock is incredible. It’s very lively, and my Noveske feels like a 2x4 in comparison. And while the KAC is an expensive rifle, it is also an incredible value. The entire package includes a hammer forged barrel, URX rail, ambi controls, outstanding KAC iron sights, enhanced BCG, LMT SOPMOD stock, and 2-stage trigger. You’d be hard pressed to build a rifle of similar quality for $2K.
That said, I’d suggest Daniel Defense or Noveske for your situation. KAC uses a few proprietary parts for the SR-15, so getting extras to stash away is more difficult, not to mention more expensive. DD and Noveske use normal AR parts which you can get from any number of vendors.
Whatever you decide, I suggest getting the gun you want. It’s cheaper (and easier) to do it right the first time instead of upgrading later.
I have owned 2 SR15’s and a Noveske. I’ve not owned a Daniel Defense though their RIS II rails are my first choice. The initial cost of the SR15 is not at all bad for what you get. Personally, I’m not a fan of the integrated sight of the URX II. I’ve broken one and bent the hell out of another. The good guys at KAC replaced it free of charge.
The SR15 is not the most accurate rifle out there, though I get very good accuracy from match ammo. The Noveske I had with a standard chf barrel was a good bit more accurate. I’ve been thinking about replacing the URX II with a RIS II, but now I’m starting to think I might just put that sr15 upper on the EE for trade for a m4a1 block 2 type upper from BCM, Noveske, etc.
I’m not complaining about the KAC and I think it’s a great rifle. Considering the initial cost, you get a lot. The upper has an MSRP of about $1,500 but you can get it for less. It’s ready to go and there’s nothing to add. It comes with the KAC rear 200-600, auto carrier and the URX II. The URX II used to cost nearly $500, now it’s around $300.
The lower comes with a $250 SOPMOD stock assembly, a $320 trigger, $70 selector, $30 trigger guard, a lower if stripped would run a couple hundred or more plus the parts. You can find those for $650 to $750, depending.
On the other hand, the Noveske is a better value when you buy the upper separate and a stripped lower then assemble it yourself. It’s basically the opposite with Noveske and you can save a few hundred or more by assembling the lower.
If I was starting with nothing, I’d probably get a 14.5" or 16" Noveske, DD or BCM and most likely not buy the SR15 as my primary gun. I really appreciate it for what it is, but now that I want to change the rail, I need to find a wrench to borrow if I end up going that route as buying one is over $200. Also, there’s been no reports of a broken or sheared bolt that I’m aware of and the barrel will last a couple times longer than most. The only issue at all is if you do need to replace the bolt, it’s almost $400 and if you need to rebarrel it, you’re sending it it instead of doing it yourself. Having said that, I have about 15,000 through one and there’s really no loss of accuracy from new. As for the Ambi features of the lower, I never use them and shoot support side almost every range trip.
I’d go with the Noveske but any of the three would be a great choice.
Jon
Your options are all good, and if you want an optic and are budget limited I think the Daniel Defense plus an optic would be a good bet.
If you already have an optic or don’t want to buy one right away, I would look at the LMT MRP CQB. They are awesome, and will meet your quality, durability and accuracy requirements. The only nonstandard parts are the upper receiver and the barrel - all the items that are more likely to wear out or break are standard AR15 parts.
Larue PredatAR, best bang for your buck.
None of which have the mid-length gas system the OP asked for.
I have a Noveske N4 midlength and my friend has a DD midlength with a 9" Lite rail and standard FSB.
While I do like my N4 a lot, if I were to do it over again I would save a little money and go with a Daniel Defense. For a standard general purpose type rifle, I dont see Noveske’s barrel as a big advantage over DDs hammer forged barrels and the DD will most likely be lighter.
I was down at the new Scottsdale Gun Club Peoria store the other day handling a new DD V5 LW. Thats what I would get.
Just had a thought. Since you said you have years of experience with the longer rifle in the USMC, have you looked at BCMs M16A4 clone?
You had asked if the Noveske or KAC were worth $600 more than the DD. This is where buying the upper and lower separately with Noveske would save you a lot of money. They may still have the deal where they give you a free stripped blem lower with the purchase of an upper. Even if they don’t, it’s still a good savings.
If I went with another Noveske, I’d still add a DD rail to it.
Jon
As I’m sure you’ve realized by now, most people are just going to tell you “buy what I bought” or “buy what I think is best for me”, not “here’s what I think is best for you and why”. Jon’s post above is one of the best in the thread because he’s actually telling you NOT to buy what he has and why. Any post in a thread like this that’s only one sentence long isn’t worth the time it took the poster to type. WHY they think it’s best is more important than WHAT they think is best.
Jon is also spot-on regarding buying the Noveske upper and assembling your own lower or sourcing it elsewhere. Noveske’s value is in the upper/barrel. The one caveat here is that many people want a complete gun for a variety of reasons (potential resale often being the biggest one, warranty work is another) and there isn’t anything wrong with a Noveske lower or complete gun by a long stretch. and with the new flared lowers they have coming, there is a major incentive to go with a complete gun, especially for 3-gun use. I am personally not a fan of the Noveske proprietary rail system as I think it’s heavier than it needs to be for what it is. You could always buy one of their Basic models and have another rail installed but that’s more work and time.
with your stated wants and goals, I also think the Noveske is a good option, but it’s hard to beat the price on the DD. I think most people would tell you they expect the Noveske to be more accurate but I haven’t seen any side-by-side testing to prove that’s true or not.
I think the DD would probably be the best buy here for you, for your intended use. It gets you a gun in your hand with money left over for an optic (or mags and ammo) and gets you out on the range shooting. If it turns out to be less accurate than you think you need then you can make changes to the barrel (Noveske’s stainless barrels are very nice) or even sell the whole gun.
Thanks for all of the replies. I’ve thought along all of those lines at various times as I’ve considered my purchase. Having never shot any of these weapons (only Mil issue Colt’s and FN’s and an HK416 in Afghanistan that I “borowed”) I’m going totally off of internet info and the advice of friends. I started drooling over Noveske’s first, and thought hard about just getting one of their uppers. Just wish they’d make some available! I’m thinking if I don’t go Noveske, I’ll always wish I had. Thanks for all of the quick and insightful input. The proprietary parts issue with the SR-15 does give me some concern, as I plan on having this sucker forever. Headquarters Six only gives weapon purchase approval once every year or so, and my next approval window will be to buy a 9mm pistol to add to my stable.
Before anyone jumps on THAT, I already have a 1911!
I didn’t realize how inexpensively they were selling these. $1500 is a pretty good price for what you appear to get. Too bad they’re pretty much sole-source I would guess so there’s not much chance of doing even better on the price. Are their little screw-on plastic handguard sections available yet? I like that feature quite a bit.
I looked into the LaRue PredatAr a while ago and found out they don’t have M4 feedramps, while no one has ever had or reported an issue with it, I would probably have a with it.