hey guys first post and build need some expert advise please!!!

AR/M4 Custom Build Forum
1

First i want to say this sight rocks. This will be my first AR15 i know i can go with a RRA, CMMG, STAG etc. But after talking to Grant at G&R tactical and some of you guys I want to build it the way i want the first time so there isnt alot of overlap in cost of upgrades. I had a RRA tactical entry in lay away at a local gun shop but I canceled it after hearing the importance on 1/7 twist 4150 chrome lined barrells that they dont offer. I really want an all purpose AR good for hunting, target shooting, plinking, protection if needed and a setup that is accurate 100-200 yards. I already have a tack driver with my rem 700 r-5 milspec bolt action for the long range. I just want a very good quality setup.

I also want to know more about the gas piston conversion what advantages does it have and will i be able to convert down the road with this setup below.

I think i was going to start my build with this lower

LMT : Defender Lower with SOPMOD Stock and Two Stage Trigger

item # L7E2

then i want to go with a BCM upper middy flat top 16

question- I want to possibly get a low profile front block/sight, will any company build it that way if ordered in that configuration?

My plans were to have flip up BUIS, and an eotech with 4x magnifier on top. I havent seen any pics of that set up will it all fit on just the flat top receiver or does it need the front rail also. If so i wanted and Daniel Defense omega 9". If that setup is on top with a standard FSB?

thanks again guys for all info. I just keep researching and find something that makes me change my mind every other thread. lol

I was probably going to order through G&r tactical if any other suggestions please advise.

please feel free to give me all advice you want nothing will hurt my feelings. I know i could build a noveske for a few hundred more with a ss barrell and all but i think this setup will be very accurate and have great function for what i want.

2

You said this is your first AR, so I’m going to reply accordingly.

I would skip the two-stage trigger as I think it’s an expense you don’t need.

I wouldn’t bother with a low-profile gas block unless you’re going to install an extended rail over top of it, and I wouldn’t bother with a rail at all for quite some time. Get some rounds through the gun and get out to a training class before you bother with things like rails. The $300+ that a low-pro gas block and rail system will cost you would go a long way towards tuition for a 3-day class.

Skip the Eotech altogether, and don’t bother with a magnifier at all. Get yourself into a good class with a quality Aimpoint (without magnifier) and you’ll amaze yourself when you start making hits on 6" steel at 200 yards without the magnifier. I strongly suggest the Aimpoint C3 with ADM mount for $445 from G&R.

here is the rifle I just built using a BCM mid-length upper I got from Grant. In fact, almost all the parts for this gun came from Grant.

3

I don’t really consider myself to be an “expert” in civilian builds, but-

Do not worry yourself with a piston. For non-military use the DI is a great operating system, unless you decide to get a full-auto suppressed SBR, in which case the piston will be a noticeable improvement. As it is, the midlength is a great gas system for a 16" gun, and theoretically is a less violent OS than a CAR system on a 16" barrel.

Agree with rob_s on all else.

4

+1 but i like my Eotech’s just FYI i had the magnifier and i have to say that i would definitely skip that if ya want magnification look toward a 1-4 power optic

5

well i have started adding up total cost and i need opinions please.

If i go with LMT lower with Sopmod stock and two stage trigger — 511.00
BCM upper with LMT BCG and gas buster charging handle — 667.95
If i get a calvary arms forearm cover — 30.00
(the only thing bothering me here is not being able to mount
my harris bipod)
Troy flip up rear sight — 139.00

                                                                                             total  1347.95

is this a solid build for the money spent I know i could save money by not getting the two stage trigger or the sopmod stock but it is only about 100 dollars less for g&r tactical package 2 setup for a LMT lower with these parts
Package 2

LMT Lower w/Single Stage Trigger
CMT 6 position receiver extension
LMT castle nut and receiver plate
CMT buffer spring
LMT H buffer
Magpul Enhanced Trigger Guard
Magpul MIAD (basic)
Magpul CTR Stock

price $400

so yes that would save me $111 but is it worth the difference to get the trigger and better stock now.

And im really torn on being able to mount my harris bipod and a fore grip. Need suggestions please.

Is this setup good for the money spent compared to say just buying a colt which i know i have alot more upgrades on this setup than the colt would have at this entry price.

HELP:confused:

6

You’re getting ahead of yourself IMHO.

Buy/build a basic carbine with stock handguards, stock, trigger, and add an Aimpoint and a light and a two-point sling. In fact, I’d even skip the light for now.

Then go shoot the piss out of it.

re: the bipod, I don’t know why you’d want to put a bipod on a build like this.
re: the vert grip, I’d skip that too until you know you want one and why.

Can’t stress enough that this is what I think you should be buying/building.

7

You can piece together an AR, or buy a complete one. Honestly, if you need this much input to piece one together, you should be buying one complete.

Call G&R, tell him you want the LMT lower with MOE parts, and a BCM upper with whatever quality BCG he has in stock, and a standard charging handle. Add a BUIS of your choice (the Troy is good). Get a BFG Victory sling and have Grant hook you up with the right mounts to get it on your carbine. Just take the ones he recommends. Buy a few Pmags with it, and call it a day.

Otherwise…just buy a complete rifle and be done with it.

8

you never know what you like untill you get out and shoot

9

I sort of agree/disagree with the masses, here…I disagree that you need a box gun for a first- there’s nothing wrong with wanting to build a swifty for a first AR- just keep in mind that you don’t know exactly what you’ll want/need until you’re out on the range and notice something is subtracting from your otherwise wonderful shooting experience.

I do agree that you should keep it simple, however. So build something swift, but not too complicated- and keep your budget open for all the changes you’ll want to make.

I would get that LMP SOPMOD w/ 2S trig, and put a solid, but basic upper on there… CMMG M10 MEDCON w/ LMT enhanced bolt group. Give that a feel, and decide on your handguard/rail system once you’ve banged around enough to know what you need. That way you have a rock solid upper and a rock solid lower, and everything is still totally modable to suit your desires.

10

toyoxdm-

I do not know at what level of experiance you have as a shooter so I am not trying to talk down to you.

Keep it simple until you know what you want. A BCM Middy flat top 16" Barreled Upper and a LMT lower with a SINGLE STAGE trigger would be a great start. That way once you figure out what you want to do with it you have a great base to build on. I would add a BUIS, Troy is the standard, and leave it at that. Know your iron sights before you get into optics. Remember, we were shooting M16’s without optics in combat for almost 30 years before putting optics on them, they still work without them. Get a good sling, Blue Force Gear Vickers Combat Application sling is the heat. do not worry about a light or anything else like that until you have mastered the base rifle. Then every time you add something new keep working with your carbine until you have mastered that and then move on to a new piece. It is like a video game, you have to beat level #1 before you can go to level #2. :smiley:

If you must get some type of optic now go with the EO Tech. We can debate the Aimpoint vs EO Tech question all day but I will say this. SOCOM went from the standard big Army Aimpoint to the EO Tech. That is what I have on my work gun and that is what i have had on my work gun for the last 5 trips down range. When I go into harms way I go with an EO Tech. Enough on that.

11

Just FYI on that Eotech if you haven’t seen it already.
http://www.eotech-inc.com/553modification.php

As I understand it the vast majority of Eotechs in the Army’s inventory are/were there simply because they couldn’t get Eotechs. Any insight you can provide on this, or if the Eotech actually was chosen because it was deemed superior, links you can provide to the testing that produced this result?

IMHO with an Aimpoint C3 available with mount for $445 from G&R, there’s no reason at all to even consider an Eotech. YMMV

12

i have the 553 and have done the batt mod this is the 4th one that i have had and have no issues at all with it. i in know way would bag on the aimpoint as it has been the standard for years but my personal preference would be on the eotech rob_s is there particular reasons that you dis like the eotech?

13

The first batch of 553s did not the proper length of springs in the battery compartment. That has been fixed. I have never had that happen and like I said I have a 553 on my work gun now and had a 511. As for price just go with a 512 that you can get for around $350.

I feel that it is a far superior product to the Aimpoint. my reference is the 7 plus years I have participated in the GWOT. :smiley:

14

i understand the batt issue and i have corrected it. what im getting at is what are the reasons that you or anyone would choose the aimpoint over the eotech.

i personally like the eotech because i seem to have a better FOV. whats your preference and why?

15

I don’t understand the FOV issue. You’re shooting with both eyes open, right?

When shooting in a dynamic situation with both eyes open, the supposed FOV advantage of the Eotech is non-existant.

Factor in the too-low mounting height, the horrendous battery life, the known issue with the contactors, the automatic shutoff, buttons that are obscured by a magnifier (on some models) etc. and it’s a no-brainer.

Generally I find that most people just like what they have/buy/use, and many people choose the Eotech for a first optic based on cost alone. I’ve owned Eotechs and Aimpoints, and I found the shortcomings of the Eotechs to make them not worth the (perceived) lower price. Factor in the fact that they really need a riser, and even the price advantage goes out the window.

I’m not going to argue with somebody else’s opinion based on whatever experience they may have, but without an equal, or at least similar, experience with the competition it’s a rather un-qualified opinion and of little value to me personally. There are guys out there running iron sights that have never tried an RDS at all, but that doesn’t mean I’m changing out all my uppers to A2s.

16

I’m going to be the devils advocate and pass on both aim point and Eotech.

I had problems with aimpoint mounts coming loose. I lost a 553 to the batt issue.

I had issues with the aimpoint dot at 600 yards and the honeycomb thing that is on the front lens, I kept loosing the dot.

Eotech reticle can be considered busy.

I also DESPISE any magnifier on both the Aimpoint and Eotech. Why the hell are we trying to take a CQB optic and make it a SPR/DMR optic???

If you want something magnified get a ACOG, short dot, or some type of scope.

With that being said, I use both Eotech and Aimpoint. Right now I have a Colt 6921 with an Aimpoint M4. My Noveske N4 carbine is used with a Eotech 553. With the Noveske being my primary close range gun, I use the 553 simply because I like the reticle better at short and long range distances.

I’m starting to use ACOG’s more and more has I find that my times are only about a .10th of a second slower from a low ready at close range. There also faster at long ranges.

Besides going into a house/building I rarely have the gun in a position where the optic could be used anyway.

^ the gun is tilted 90 degrees and the stock is over my shoulder. if i get a large enough room or hallway the rifle is transitioned back to a shouldered/low ready position. It sounds goofy but when clearing a stairway or short and tight hallways its the best tactic I’ve found so far.

However there are far more trained people with much more sound opinions, these are just my experiences and personal likes/dislikes.

Rob_S I do agree with you on several points of the Eotech though, battery life sucks and automatic shut off is stupid. However it goes both ways if you can remember to turn your optic off, remember to turn it on. on the 553 I do not find the mounting height too low. the rest of the models I do.

Rob.

17

When I say fov for me it just seems like there is less in the way. It might just be that the optic is square instead of circle?? At any rate I’m not trying to argue I truthfully wanted your opinion based on your experiences sorry if you thought I arguing

18

Didn’t take it as arguing, just something I still don’t understand after running both optics. I’m focused on the target, and all I see is the target and the red dot.

19

Hi Rob,

Why do you recommend a single stage trigger vs. a two stage trigger?

Thanks in advance,

Mark

20

A standard trigger is better for learning trigger control/basic marksmanship. Not essential, but better.

I was taught you should be squeezing the trig so smooth that it’s a total surprise when the weapon discharges.

It’s never a surprise when you’re using a 2S trig, leading to a tendancy to jerk the trig, reducing accuracy. Making bad habits.

I still think he should get the 2S LMT lower… he’ll want one eventually, might as well get it now.