I just got my carry permit and I’m going to be helping out with security at church. My question is, how and where should I conceal my J frame? I don’t wear a suit every Sunday, mostly dress pants and a polo shirt tucked in. I would like to hear everyones opinion on where to carry. Thank in advance.
What church do you attend that requires security and a CCW?
There are several holsters on the market that allow you to wear you holster IWB and still be able to tuck a shirt over it. I know that Galco has quite a few of them or you could also go with a Raven and purchase their IWB loops that allow you to tuck your shirt. Since it is a J-frame you could also use a pocket holster and keep the gun at the ready in your pocket. I personally haven’t had good experience with pocket carry. I carried a Seacamp 32 and it was difficult to properly grip the handgun, then again a seacamp is really small could possibly work better with the J-frame. Then their is always the ankle holster but wouldn’t recommend that as a primary weapon holster.
Whatever you choose just make sure that it’s a high quality holster, Raven or similar would be a great option due to the fact you can use it IWB or OWB by swaping some hardware. After you have the holster practice practice practice and then practice practice practice some more. Especially if you have to clear a tucked in shirt.
Which model is your J? Is pocket carry out of the question?
HAHA my church doesn’t require security or a CCW. We have a few members that volunteer to carry and help secure the congregation if needed. Our church services are on TV so they reach more people than those in the sanctuary. My J frame is model 438, it’s the bodyguard without the laser. I hope you all don’t think I’m crazy for wanting to carry while in church. Thanks for the input.
In Texas for example, most large churches employee off duty officers because of situations like [b]this[/b]
Odds are you will have time to react if there is an incident in a church so your draw time from a holster doesn’t have to be super fast. I would probably use a pocket holster and just practice a little with it.
I am a certified armed guard in CA and I am in the process of offering my services as a volunteer security guard at our church. While in the states that accept my FL, UT, and CO permits, I ALWAYS carry at church. There are spiritual shepherds of the flock and there are physical shepherds, and I believe anyone with the ability to be an armed first responder is a shepherd. If I were you, I’d buy a pocket holster and carry it like that with a speed strip in the opposite pocket.
After reading that I guess it makes sense. I guess it doesn’t matter where you are grocery store, movies or even church if it’s gonna happen it’s gonna happen.
Definitely try the pocket holster for the S&W bodyguard. Just make sure you get a good one that will stay in one place in your pocket. Some have a rubber material on the outside or ruff suede. A buddy of mine had his wife actually sew his pant’s pocket around the holster so that it fit snug with no movement. She didn’t actually sew the holster into the pants just outlined the pocket to the shape of the holster. I did that for my spare mag in a pair of shorts, reach in your pocket and it’s always there.
Sorry to get off topic, but you might want to suggest to your church that they hire some off duty cops and/or a professional security company if they’re dead set on having armed guards. If church members wants to carry concealed for their own protection, that’s one thing. But letting a bunch of average Joes pack heat and provide security without any security-related training is just a bad idea IMO.
You’re not crazy for wanting to carry in church. It’s been proven in past church incidents that they don’t have an invisible forcefield around them.
Carry methods in your method of dress could be a pocket holster or tuckable waist holster where the shirt tucks around the holster.
But…if you are taking it upon yourself to protect a large number of people… how confident are you that you can successfully engage a shooter with your 5 shot J frame?
I’m not the only one carrying. We have about 5 guys that carry on any given Sunday. They are spread our through the sanctuary. I’m not saying I could stop an army with 5 rounds but if I can get to the bad guy before he gets to the pastor then hopefully 5 rounds will be all that is needed.
someone above asked if you’ve tried pocket carry, and in all the banter about whether or not you should be carrying I may have missed your response.
FWIW, I bought a j-frame with the express intent of pocket carry and for my size it is a total non-starter. I’m 6’1" ~175 lbs and no matter what pants I carry in the gun prints like crazy in the pocket.
I’m considering trying a belly-band setup either with the j-frame or my Glock 26. A friend carries a Glock… whatever model is the .357 sig version of the 26… in one and he runs it low in the same location he’d carry on belt and it seems to work great for him.
I would have thought that any rational man would not need an example of violence in church to conclude that violence in church can and does happen.
I’m going to say ditch the J frame, buy a full size pistol, IWB holster, offside mag carrier, and wear a sport coat over it.
That’s how I roll in church.
I will offer a differing opinion on this whole church security thing. I carry weapons and train with them to protect me and my family, not to police society or be anyone else’s shepherd.
The overwhelming majority of people I interact with every day have the same opportunity to become well versed in weapons and self defense. They choose, though willful action or naivete, to not become self reliant in that area. That in no way obligates me to protect them.
There is the flaw in your system; relying on 5 rounds while carrying to provide “security”.
First, there are enough documented incidents in churches to dispel any argument that carrying in church is unreasonable. But there is a huge difference in dropping a 5 shot revolver in a front pocket for a quick trip to the market for milk and carrying in church for “security”, even unofficial security.
There are better options and a slim 9 mm is easliy concealed, IWB or OWB, as well as an extra magazine or two. Your casual attire could be modified to include a dressy camp shirt or guayabera (it’s a Miami thing), or other square tailed semi-formal shirt that is worn untucked. They are very “in” at the moment.
I frequently carry a j frame, but not in a place where the reason to carry is the possibility that a crazy person or one with the intent to hurt a lot of people would start shooting. In most of these situations, the shooter comes well armed and with bad intent.
I don’t carry it yet because I don’t have any rounds through my new ruger LC9, but it would be a good candidate to carry 8 rounds in the gun with 14 extra in two spare mags. biggest drawback is the gun ships with one mag and spares are costly.
What’s the saying, “use the right tool for the job”? The j frame doesn’t really fill that role in this case.
I’m good friends with the guy who was leading worship during that service and we had a shooting in our parking lot about 3 years ago while I was putting my (then) one year old daughter in the car. I never go to church unarmed even though we have off-duty officers and paramedics who volunteer their time to serve as our security staff. My weapon is for protection of myself and family.
I do agree that if you are fulfilling a security role you need proper training and gear. I wouldn’t feel comfortable in that role with just a J-frame and a CCW.
That aside, I would choose an IWB and just untuck your polo - that’ll afford you quick access without looking like a bum. After that I’d consider pocket carry. If neither of those worked I’d try a belly-band /smart carry. In this instance (and really any instance where we’re talking about a primary) I wouldn’t even think about ankle carry.
+1 on this.
What makes matters worse in the Wedgwood Church Shooting article I linked is what is not mentioned in the article. What’s not mentioned in the article is there was an off duty cop in the church who was part of the church group. He had to sit by idle watching the shooter execute people. Needless to say it is now the policy of that agency for their officers to pretty much carry 24/7.
But me personally, I would carry what I could most shoot accurately for that mission role. The biggest concern in any church type shooting is going to be background. For me, the small 5 shot J frames are the, I’m going to shove this gun in your rib cage and pull the trigger until it stops firing type of gun. I practice fairly regulary with my J frame and am comfortable hitting a target at 25 yards but it would not be my pistol of choice if I thought I may need to take out an active shooter in a church. But if thats what you got, its better that no gun at all.
Edit: Couldn’t agree more with DeltaSierra.
How many security oriented training courses have you taken yet?
Until you have taken at least a basic handgun course, you shouldn’t be carrying at all, and until you go to a reputable trainer with an extensive background in security work (http://web.greywolftraining.net/flash/aboutus/staff.php) you should NEVER even consider attempting to act as a “security” officer.
During my first year and a half of college, I worked at a convenience store on the night shift. It was in a rough part of the county and the door jam had a bullet hole in it from a previous armed robbery where the robber shot into the store. Company policy forbade employees to be armed but I didn’t really care. I went out and purchased a J Frame that I pocket carried every night I worked. I never used a pocket holster, but I did put an old zip up pouch between the pistol and the pocket liner to hide the outline better.