Help with 3 point jam, DW Valor. update page 2

General Firearms Handguns - 1911
1

I recently purchased a Dan Wesson Valor. The pistol quality is amazing. It blows away my trp but I am having a problem with it.

I am using cmc power mags with a variety of ammo. 230gr winchester, 230grn speer lawman, 185grn speer lawman. The problem happens with all of the ammo.

When I load a new magazine I am getting occasional 3 point jams. It doesnt matter if I use the slide release or sling shot the slide. I was trying to watch the loading sequence and notice that I cannot replicate the jam when working the slide slowly. The round will pop up and not have any problem going into the chamber.

When I get the jam it seems that it is just barely hanging up. Sometimes just a tap on the magazine or a bump to the back of the slide will push it into battery. I do not have any problems with the rest of the rounds in the magazine. Once the pistol is loaded it functions fine. It only happens when loading a new mag.

I have about 600 rounds through the pistol and it is still doing it. I have cleaned the pistol several times. The jams happen when the pistol is clean and dirty. The pistol doesnt really like to eject live rounds unless the slide is forcefully worked but this is a minor issue unless it is somehow related.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. I know I can send it back but if there is anything I can do first to fix the problem that is preferred. I am planning on trying a wilson 47d magazine. I know these mags circumvent the controlled feed aspect of the pistol. I dont mind using them if they fix the problem but if there is something actually wrong with the pistol I dont want to cover it up but using a different magazine.

2

Hello,
I see you are using CM power mags, does this type of situation happen with other magazines, ie 7 rounders, USGI mags, Wilsons?? I have been reading the M1911 owners guide by Walt Kuleck and referencing that book (page 179). The round is jammed with the nose pointing up into the chamber correct? He suggests it is either a mag problem, surface defects in the feed ramp or problems with the angle of the feed ramp/magazine interaction. I would try a different magazine and if that doesn’t work, send it back with a clear expanation as to whats happening, with which mags etc…
Hope this helps.

3

I tried some wilson etm mags and now I get a new jam. It also is happening with the CMC mags. If I load a new mag on a closed slide and then rack it the round will hit the feed ramp on the frame and just stop. I took several pictures in the link below. This happened with gold dots and 185 grain speer tmj ammo.

I looked carefully when I got the three point jam and there isnt any contact with the extractor.

I dont see anything visually wrong with the pistol. The feed ramp on the frame and barrel are perfect. You can see yourself on the barrel feed ramp. There is a 1/16 gap between the barrel feed ramp and the frame. The breech face is smooth.

https://picasaweb.google.com/108263462085408177326/Valor?authkey=Gv1sRgCPH02fCujbKEpAE

4

These malfunctions are driving me nuts because I want to like this pistol. The fit and finish is amazing but if it doesnt run the finish is irrelevant.

Since I posted some problems I will put in a little about the rest of the gun. I bought the version with the black duty treatment. They have only been using this since 2010 and it is supposed to be very tough. I believe the 2009 and older models used a finish similar to cerakote.

The outside of the gun is flawless. There are no machining marks at all. The inside flats of the rear cocking serrations have no marks. The only marks that are even slightly visible is the rear of the ejector. It is flush with the frame but there are some slight machine or tooling marks (picture in link).

This contrast with my springfield trp. It has visible tooling marks on the right side of the trigger guard and what looks like chatter inside the cocking serrations.

The valor has very nice 25 lpi serrations on the front and rear back strap. The bottom of the checkering where it hits the magwell has been smoothed (picture in link). On the trp the bottom of the checkering is extremely sharp. I have caught and ripped clothing with it before. It will cut you if you dont have a mag in the gun.

The grip safety doesnt have perfect blending. The left side of the grip safety is blended smooth farther down than the right side. This may be because it is not blended at all. I am not sure and it is only cosmetic (pic in link). The trp grip safety is mim and has rough spot from the mold. You cant feel it when holding the gun, only visible.

The valor comes with a tritium front sight and a Heine fixed tritium rear. The front sight is one of the only places where the trp beats the valor. The front sight on the valor is not serrated and the dovetail of the sight is cut to contour the slide but it is only one cut (pic in link). On the trp the front sight is actually rounded and matches the slide perfectly. An additional problem with the front sight is with the tritium. The vial is stuck into the sight and then surrounded by white glue or caulking. This is normal but there is nothing covering the front of the vial so it is easy for dirt and carbon to get in the gap. Not a huge deal but it is a pain to clean.

The front of the pistol is equipped with a very nicely fitted bushing. It is tight enough that I can remove it by hand, but just barely. The frame to slide fit is tight, no movement at all. The trp will move and I can feel play when pushing on the slide. The bushing on the trp is not what I would even consider snug.

At the back of the pistol is a fitted firing pin stop. There is no clocking of the extractor. On the trp there is considerable side to side movement in firing pin stop. The valor uses a reduced radius firing pin stop (pic in link). The extractor is not perfectly flush with the frame. It is sunk in a tiny bit into the slide, just a cosmetic thing.

Inside the pistol was the only place I found any tooling marks at all. On the front left side of the ejection port are some very minor tooling marks. In fact my ed brown had tooling marks on the entire left side of ejection port, more than the valor.

The barrel ramp is polished to a mirror finish. I am guessing the frame feed ramp has the same polish but it has the black finish on it. No roughness visible at all. Same with the breech face.

The trigger pull is great. Breaks right at 3.5lbs. Interestingly this is one area where the trp keeps up. The trigger pull on my trp is also a crisp 3.5lbs. The reset and takeup is a tiny bit shorter on the valor.

When I first got the valor I was a little concerned that it might develop some peening at the slide stop. The slide stop lever only engages about 2/3 of the way into the notch. I am at 600 rounds with it now. All of these are fired to slide stop and I typically use the slide stop to release the slide. No peening or burrs showing yet (pic in link).

Overall I think the valor is a great pistol. If you are comparing a stainless trp with a stainless valor I dont think they are even close. Right now the valor is about 80 dollars more at buds. The trp uses several mim parts. The valor doesnt use any mim parts. What is more important to me is not that there are no mim parts but that they are the best parts available. Ed brown grip safety and thumb safety, egw bushing, etc. I read some other reviews on the internet and found some people complaining about the fit and finish of their valor. I dont know if these were earlier models but mine is closer to my ed brown than it is my trp.

With all that said right now I have a valor that looks pretty and has nice parts but malfunctions. The trp may not be as pretty but I have over a 1000 rounds through it with no problems at all.

If you want some more technical reviews and real world accuracy tests check out dave severns shootouts. The valor keeps up with semi-custom pistols in accuracy.

Pictures
https://picasaweb.google.com/108263462085408177326/Valor2?authkey=Gv1sRgCMSGxIHJud3teA

5

I have seen a couple of DW 1911’s that were polished as smooth as glass but had the wrong geometry.

post a pic like this:

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7

I am not qualified to give an opinion on the 1911 inner workings or the geometry of the ramp. Hopefully someone who is, will chime in soon.

Having said that the ramp looks to be a little steep to my untrained eye.

Also the frame rail may be causing your slide stop to not fully engage the slide. Most have the square cut out for the slide stop now. Again… I do not know. just offerng a guess based on my experience shooting these guns.

8

while I’m even LESS qualified than David regarding the 1911, I do have a few questions:

  1. When you say that it’s a first round problem only, have you tried downloading the mag, say by a round or two, and see if the “first” round still hangs up? this sometimes helps to ID mag problems

  2. What recoil spring are you running? if it takes just a little pressure to get the gun into battery, maybe your spring is weak. Every time i get a new 1911, I install a new recoil spring/main spring/firing pin spring. This lets me evaluate the guns performance with a known set of spring weights.

  3. In this picture, is the round getting into the extractor smoothly? a misprofiled extractor or wrong extractor tension can prove to be problematic.

9

While I don’t have this pistol with me to take abetter picture, this is what the feedramp looks like on my Vickers Colt. It’s a wide, tall, and generous ramp:

10

I haven’t tried downloading the mags. But it has happened with all of them I have tried and they are less than 6 months old.

The recoil spring is stock. It is supposed to be 18.5lbs.

I wasn’t able to see any interference with the extractor. The tension seemed fine. It holds a loaded round but the round will fall out with moderate shaking of the slide.

I went and shot 300 rounds yesterday. 200 were winchester white box 230 grain ball. I did not have any malfunctions with these rounds. The other 100 were 185 grain truncated speer lawman. I shot 50 without a problem and then had about 3 loading jams in a row and had one round part way through a mag that didnt feed. These were all 3 point jams.

At this point the problem seems to be isolated with the truncated 185 grain speer rounds. I tried loading speer gold dots about 15 times and didn’t get any jams. I haven’t actually fired any of them yet though.

It seems like the pistol might be starting to feed a little better but the problem is still there. I am at 1000 rounds through the pistol now. I added a picture of the barrel sitting on the frame after firing all of the rounds. You can see where the bullets impact the feed ramps.

11

Have you called Keith at DW? They have damn good CS. If you continue to experience feeding issues with other HP’s call him for advice before dumping too much into fixes.

12

I sent them an email yesterday. Hopefully I will hear back tomorrow.

13

I was able to get the frame feed ramp measured and it looks to be right on.

Keith with Dan Wesson sent me a couple emails. He mentioned that it could be an ammo problem. If the crimp isnt good enough the bullets will setback into the case and this will contribute to the malfunction.

The majority of the malfunctions were caused by me at home. I was chambering the rounds over and over and I did notice that several of them started to exhibit significant set back. The problem did occur with new rounds on the range but I may have made the problem appear to be worse than it really is by replicating it at home.

Keith offered to ream and polish the barrel. I am going to put some more rounds through the pistol first and see if the problem worked itself out.

14

arggghhh, I tried to load the pistol with ASYM 185 grain match target rounds. Not a single one of these rounds will feed. The round hits the frame feed ramp and stops. It looks like these rounds are striking the very bottom of the feed ramp.

I think these rounds might be showing the true problem that only happens intermittently with other ammo. My non expert guess it that with the other ammo it is occasionally striking the feed ramp too low and then coming into the chamber at too steep of an angle. This is resulting in a three point jam. With ammo other than 230 grain ball the bullets never get a chance to make it to the chamber where they would likely exhibit the three point jam. They just stop at the frame feed ramp.

pictures added, last four

https://picasaweb.google.com/108263462085408177326/Valor?authkey=Gv1sRgCPH02fCujbKEpAE

15

I would send it back. It is not going to fix itself.

16

With what or by whom?

What did it measure?

What about the barrel?

17

Keith is sending me a return label. The pistol is going back to the factory.

I found something weird.

The 185 asym rounds wouldnt feed at all. I took the gun apart to take a picture of the feed ramp. All of the rounds were impacting at the very bottom of the feed ramp. I put the gun back together and tried clambering the asym rounds again. This time some of them starting going into the chamber. I got a three point jam once. When I looked at the feed ramp this time it was apparent that the rounds had started impacting the feed ramp higher. I dont know what is changing that is causing the rounds to impact differently. There is actually two different sets of impact marks on the feed ramp.

This is consistent with what happened previously. I would get fairly consistent malfunctions. Then something would change and the pistol would function flawlessly for a while.

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This picture is when none of the asym rounds would feed.

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In this picture the rounds started to feed properly. It is obvious something made them start hitting the feed ramp higher.

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In both of the pictures the same magazines were used.

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This was taken after firing 300 rounds. I experienced 3-4 malfunctions during the 300 rounds. It appears that there are about 3-4 marks on the feed ramp that are lower than the rest.

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Glad to hear it. I have only heard good things about Keith and DW, let us know how it turns out.