Help me understand what we are NOW doing in Afghanistan...

General General Discussion
1

My nephew getting shot in the chest a few days ago that his personal armor protected him from, and him and his buddies getting their vehicles blown up underneath them, twice this year, several of his buddies killed or maimed, as well as other stories just like this from friends and news sources, has me asking myself, “WHY?”

Help me understand, at this time, with our present mission focus, WHY?

I fully supported the Taliban removal by sending them to their Creator, often in carpet-bombed pieces. Although I think we gave the Taliban far too much time to flee to Iran/Pakistan and scatter to tribal areas before we began our war in Afganistan, I believe we did a grand job initially.

But then, in my opinion, of one not in the military, nor familiar with what is happening on the ground, except from what I read, see and hear from troops, contractors, journalists, our MISSION CHANGED. It appears that we shifted from “kill them all, let their god sort them out” removal of the Taliban to “NATION BUILDING” and propping up a government and political leaders that are NOT our friends and don’t want us there.

It seems to me that we are trying to “build a nation” with a stone-age mix of old, ignorant tribal leaders, only interested in their tribal power and lands, and third-world urbanites. It seems that most do not want the Taliban back in power, but they don’t want us there either. It seems that the people of Afganistan are not willing to do what must be done to ensure the Taliban nevers comes back, which is why they can bury so many IED’s and stage so many ambushes, and we do not get informed by the “people” or “tribal leaders” that such activity is going on in their lands. So we continue to get vehicles blown up and troops killed and maimed… all the while, the haji fighters HIDE amongst the “people” that we are trying to help, with full support of the populace. How can you fight that without just destroying the whole village for being willing accomplices and enemy refuges?

At this point, with what I know about what is going on over there, as well as what I know about muslims and the “brotherhood” that binds them together over those they call infidels, I cannot think of a reason why we should be NOW over there…

The mission has changed to one I think is not doable the way we are fighting it now, in fact, it is not a mission we should be doing at all. I hear from many fronts that action is picking up over there and troops are frustrated and disillusioned with how we are fighting this “war.” The $$$ we spend daily and the equipment and resources that get destroyed and consumed is mind-boggling. It is bankrupting this country…

For what, I ask sincerely? To support a government that will topple as soon as we leave or join up with their muslim brothers in the Taliban? To prop up people who take $$$ from Iran? To destabilize Pakistan?

It grieves me to see so many good American soldiers killed for what I think is our flawed mission…

What do I not understand about this present war in Afganistan and the MISSION that we now have? Do we now have a Pentagon and DoD who want to fight without “innocents” collateral damage? (WAR is hell on earth… never has been done cleanly… ever) What do I not understand?

Rmpl

2

We back the wrong guy for President - there and here.

Also we minced around the border with Pakistan pretending we couldn’t do anything in the area without setting off our allies, while Musharif basically played DoD and DoS for chumps.

B_C

3

The United States’ current Afghan and global counter-terrorism military missions are confused by a lack of national will, leadership, and strategic vision by the past and current Presidents of the United States.

There was and is a lack of definition of victory and desired end-state.

If it’s to prevent another attack like that on 9-11 then we need to kill the cause at its source – not to treat symptoms like a half-treated cancer, wound, or infection.

We are now throwing money and lives into huge holes in the ground without a defined “Where we want to be” mutually understood by the people of the United States and those we’re trying to deter.

Even a caveman understands not to mess with another tribe if it means massive retaliation – like being wiped out or slaughtered in Biblical proportions.

4

In fairness, the MISSION SHIFT happened under BUSH and his administration. Obama for once is right, he did INHERIT a mess… But he continues with the same FLAWED MISSION…

Rmpl

5

Yes. YHWH knows how to command an army and WIN… He also understands the corruption of the “loaf” by allowing “yeast” to remain… The battle depicted in Revelation when the Messiah returns as the Victorious King is how you fight a war! No quarter! Time for mercy is past…

Rmpl

6

From what I understand the troops are in Afgahnistan attempting to stabilise the place so that in the future Chinese mineral mining companies have no problems.

The place is rich with minerals. The Russians knew this and went partway to exploring the potential of mining the place by producing decent geological surveys.

The Chinese have bought the rights to these mineral depositis from the Afgahn Govt.

I’ll bet thats news to some.

7

maybe the chinese will forgive some of that money we owe them if we get afganistan stabilized for them… or not. :mad:

8

+1

Ancient people need an ancient style of warfare brought against them.

Bombing their towns and killing them all is the only way this problem is ever going to get solved.

When the Egyptians, Romans, Vikings, Mongols, etc went to war, they killed whole regions of people and took the rest into slavery.

9

So far I agree with every reply… but it is not helping me understand why we should stay there a day longer…

Do we stay for the honor of and blood of our countrymen spilled there? To not let their deaths be in vain? To leave victorious, rather beaten down like the Russians?

If so, it will be at least 2+ years before the flawed mission will change, and even then I have my doubts any Republican or Libertarian President will unleash the full power and might of the US Military unrestrained…

As a fan of the early writings of Special Forces Sniper, SFC Steven Barry, now retired and in exile, the controversial Editor of “The Special Forces Underground” publication back in the 90’s, as well as the other SF shadow writers of that publication, I have come to believe, from their testimony, that we no longer have WAR FIGHTERS in command within DoD or the Pentagon. There may be true Pattons or McArthur’s within the ranks, but they are being oppressed and are not setting the ROE, strategies and tactics. Rather, it seems our wars are now commanded by politically-minded brass, JAG and lawyers…

If not, then do we actually “join with” the leftists and Obama and demand the troops be withdrawn NOW?

Rmpl

10

I don’t believe we have any interest in Afghanistan, per se, rather what will stop this from happening again?


11

You’re right, we should invade Saudi Arabia.

12

Then we’d have the entire Muslim world against us for at least a thousand years.

We should kill terrorists and their blood lines wherever we find them, regardless of borders. No refuge, no respite, no mercy.

Bush 43 was right when he stated, “You’re either with us or with the terrorists.” Americans have forgotten that already.

13

I agree. However, the vast majority of the terrorists who took over those airplanes in those pictures and on that day were from Saudi Arabia.

14

The Muslims that actually believe EVERY word of the Quran and DO THEM, the ones the world calls “Islamic Extremists,” do believe with every fiber of their being that they are indeed in a long-term Jihad against the “Great Satan” and that will never change, no matter what we do, less allow ourselves to be conquered, become Muslims, and adopt Sharia Law. No matter how many Muslims we “liberate,” like Bosnia, Kosovo, Somolia, Afganistan, Iraq, etc…, they make it their lives mission to destroy us, kill our people, and defeat us.

And they are so violent, even among their own people, that no peaceful, “pew-sitter” muslim dare oppose them without risk of their head cut off, hanged, stoned, or death by some other nasty method…

Do we get this party started FOR REAL now or do we pass it on to our now young children in the future, or their children? :confused:

I’d even enlist my old, fat a$$ if that fight were for real…

Rmpl

15

In a society full of distractions, Americans forget so quickly what it is to fight a war. Particularly, a religious war that spans many generations. Mostly because the influence of the enemy rarely effects us on our soil. The last attack that we received that gained any attention was 9/11 and unfortunately that is too long to keep a any element of patriotic momentum in a nation of individual identity.

The Europeans were able to keep a 200 year war(the crusades) going thanks to religious fervor through the communal entity of the church. War is one of the few enterprises in which collective society tends to be better than a society made up of individual empowerment.

My feeling is that we will have to suffer major losses, and the Muslims will have to have large gains in conquest before the world wakes up and fights them toe-to-toe. Like I said though, the light of the west will have to be at the verge of being extinguished, when we are a cornered rat, that we’ll fight be effectively.

16

Not sure why we are there now, but I know how we got there…

17

Afghan war policy has been a disaster since day one. Some people just need to be killed, they are those people.

18

Afghanistan is a lost cause. While we fight the Taliban and El Qaida, A-stan continues to produce over 95% of the worlds Opium and Heroin. A-stan is a proxy of Pakistan. Pakistan is the real problem. Their ISI (Intelligence Service) created and supports the Taliban and supports Al Qaida. Pakistan is involved in proliferating nuclear technology to Iran, N. Korea, Syria and any other wacko’s with an anti west point of view. Pakistan is more afraid of India and uses A-stan as leverage. Pakistan is very cozy with the Chinese. They’ve even given China a F16 for T&E. Luckily the US under Bush, is actively engaging India. In the 21st Century India is a good Ally to have. The US needs to hold Pakistan accountable. Trying to make a nation of A-stan is a waste of time and resources. The British Empire never conquered it. Neither did the Russians. A-stan just needs to be randomly punished with punitive Military Expeditions. Just my opinion.

19

Question: How long have you had a muslim based problem here in the USA?

Answer: Since before Thomas Jefferson was the 3rd President.

Check out the Barbary Wars. As a result of the American War of Independence there was a bit of a lapse in Naval protection of merchant ships in the Atlantic areas. This allowed the North African Barbary pirates to more or less roam at will on the sea’s. The effect was that ships were plundered and slaves were taken.

When I say slaves I don’t mean down home tobacco pickin’ slaves. I mean that the American and European crews of ships and inhabitants of small costal towns were taken and put into slavery in North Africa. In all around 1,500,000 people.

Jefferson was active in his political assaults on muslims. At one meeting with the the representative of Tripoli:

But one cannot get around what Jefferson heard when he went with John Adams to wait upon Tripoli’s ambassador to London in March 1785. When they inquired by what right the Barbary states preyed upon American shipping, enslaving both crews and passengers, America’s two foremost envoys were informed that “it was written in the Koran, that all Nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon whoever they could find and to make Slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.”

quote: Christopher Hitchens, City Journal, 2007.

Full text (read it, its interesting): http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_2_urbanities-thomas_jefferson.html

The then fledgling USA was also in a situation where it had to pay “a commision” to Tripoli to ensure the safety of its merchant fleet.

So, no, muslims and the USA is not new a new thing it all started over 200 years ago. Any Marine who knows where the Corps hymn came from should know the history behind the words:

From the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli…

Yes they are referring to that Tripoli in North Africa. Specifically when the USMC went in and Kicked burka at the Battle of Derne in 1805.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marines’_Hymn

Go, read. Its fascinating stuff. The history of the conflict between muslims and european christians has been going on for nearly a thousand years. And as an academic observation, try putting up a church in Riyadh against trying to build a mosque in Europe or the USA…so who is winning?

20

Agreed. We cannot win a war against ideology. Find the extremist and kill them to the last man, including their families on a global scale. Any American injured, killed or captured any where in the world by anyone, should have the full force of the US Military brought against the offenders and the countries who harbor them.