I hate asking accuracy questions because it normally results in me defending my shooting skills, but I have a Rem700 7mm mag that shoots terribly.
I got it when I first got into hunting about 15 years ago. I really have not used it much. I think the barrel has always been cleaned, but it shoots about 3" groups at 100 yards. The groups do not seem to open that much after that. At 400 yards the group was about 5-7". (I was getting low on hunting rounds and did not do much more testing after that).
I pulled it out earlier this year and knocked the dust off because I went Elk hunting with it this year. I shot 3 different weight Federal Premium Nosler Partitions and 2 different Remington Core-Lokts. The groups were about the same for all of them. I would have tested more, but 7mm mag ammo is not cheap. I probably tested about 100 rounds over the course of about 3 weekends.
I basically figure I have 3 options: 1) Try more ammo, but I am not sure it will make the groups that much better 2) Try a free-float stock…Again I am not sure it will help that much 3) Cut my losses and sell.
I just wanted to get an opinion on what I should do. Does it sound like there is a barrel issue? Maybe the barrel was not as clean as I thought and it got pitted out.
A few more tid-bits that might help:
The scope I was using was a Nikon Monarch. I had it mounted on my 223 rem 700 that I was knocking out 1" groups with all summer with before this. I have made sure the rings are tight.
All my shots were off a bipod. My 400 yard shot was the least stable (I had to use my 4-wheeler as a rest to see over a hill) and it was the only group that I was satisfied with.
Maybe I should not worry about my group sizes so much if it is minute of elk, but it does not give me a lot of confidence in my tool when I see that.
Oh my GOD where do I start, there are so many variables! First we need some more info from you. First what is your shooting background ie. are you a military trained rifleman?
What is the gun model, barrel profile, stock material, scope, scope base, rings , and twist rate?
How fast are you shooting? If your firing more than 1 round in a 10 min period, with a penile weight barrel your going to see results like you described.
Rem rifles from the factory have long free-bore so list the bullets you tested and their weights.
Background: Non-mil shooter. No formal training. I shoot recreationally. I shot about 1500 rounds last year. Probably half was out of bolt action rifles. I have been shooting for a while. I do not consider myself a novice. I think any novice could probably shoot a better group than I am getting out of this gun.
Model: 700BDL 7mm mag
Barrel Profile: Standard (Not-Bull)
Stock: Wood Stock
Scope: Nikon Monarch 3.5-12x50
Rings: Leupold…I do not know what the style is called, but they are pretty standard
Twist Rate: I do not know
I normally shoot 3 rounds in about 1 minute. I let the gun cool about 10 minutes before I try again.
I do not have the boxes for all the ammo I shot, but I believe they are:
140 & 160 grain Federal Premium Nosler Partitian. I thought there was a 3rd Fed-Prem one, but I do not see it on their website.
First examine the bore. Then soak it with some Montana Extreme 50 bmg formula copper remover. That is what I did when groups opened up on my 7 mm. Mag. Higher intensity cartridges tend to leave some jacket material behind, and normal cleaning will not take it out.
Alright for starters I did a little asking around and it would seam that rem uses a 1-9 1/4 rh twist in their BDL model 700 24" barrel.
That said bullets in the 140 to 160g weight are ideal, remember what I said about the factory barrels having generous free bore? Great that means you want to pick a hunting bullet that is not sensitive to seating depths and will tolerate a long jump to the rifling. Stay away from Berger VLD, Swift Sirrico, and Barns.
The first advice I have is slow down, 3 rounds a min it just to fast for that rifle. The barrel can not handle the heat and its showing up in your targets down range. Think of it like this, when your out hunting and you see a dear, do you fire 3 rounds as fast as you can, or just one well placed shot?
One well placed shot is the answer, and this it is this one shot we must plan, practice and prepare for. Therefore one shot in every 10 min is the load test procedure you want to ad heir to. Also of worth to note at this point is the rifle just might not be up to the 400m task you are asking of it. Your group at 400m is more than acceptable for elk hunting at that range.
If you want more out of the rifle, it might be time to invest in a new stock, or float the barrel and bed the action in the stock you have. Next I would do the trigger. In closing it may help to do a very in depth tweaking of the rifle. Check and re check all screws and bolts, they cant be loose but don’t over tighten them either. A quick disassemble of the rifle and a look at the wear on the metal and wood surfaces can tell you a lot about where a rifle is bearing the majority of its recoil forces.
Most barrels tend to string vertically when heated up rapidly, the thinner the barrel the quicker it heats up.
And just because your ammo wasnt cheap doesnt mean its match ammo. Hunting ammo typically wont hold under MOA, you need something that matches your twist rate and isnt a hunting round.
What kind of stock is on this gun, wood? Is it free floated? Do you shoot with a front a rear rest?
I dont think a 400yd group off an atv really counts either, not exactly a repeatable platform in which to eliminate shooter error.
!.Check rings, mount/bases…
2.Check action screws are torqued correctly.
3.Look into bedding the action/ maybe even some pressure in the barrel channel…need a riflesmith that knows how to chase the problem down.
4.Try a full float on it/ possible restock
5.The barrel could be completely fouled, clean it correctly.
6.Your scope may be fubar.
7.You might be fubar. 7mag is the limit for alot of people, and its where you’ll see alot of people get really jiggy! Need a definition of jiggy? Thats when your head/shoulder tries to run away from the scope/butt. Its sounds like you shoot plenty, that doesn’t mean your doing it right…I know because I seldom have proper trigger discipline. I would expect your rifle to shoot better than that with good hunting ammunition. Good luck.
Thanks for the help guys…I will try some of the easier fixes (cleaning the barrel better and shooting slower, maybe some different ammo). If that still is not making it shoot better I will take it to a rifle smith and see if they can figure it out.
Do you have any dings on the barrel crown? That would affect accuracy. Be careful you don’t ding the crown when cleaning the rifle.
When you mounted the scope on the new rifle, did you notice if the stock comb was lower than on your .223 rifle? If you don’t have a consistent cheek weld, it will have an affect on accuracy.
If I had a hunting rifle that would shoot 2 MOA with hunting loads I would be happy with it’s accuracy.
Be sure your scope bases are secured with blue locttite on the screws. Tighten the screws securing the action to the stock. Then try shooting off sandbags with your off hand wrapped around the forearm & resting on the forward sandbag, pulling the stock tightly into your shoulder. Easy now squeeze a shot off, wait a few minutes(3-5 depending on the coolness of the weather) then easy now, squeeze off another shot.
5-7" groups at 400 yards is 1.5 MOA… you shouldn’t have an issue getting 1.5" group at a 100 although I have seen some rifles that for some mysterious reason won’t. In reality, your groups at 400 are pretty good for a factory rifle in 7mm mag.
Lots of good advice thus far. Before you throw a bunch of money at this, clean the bore with copper solvent and make sure that your action screws are both tight. Shoot a few groups and get a baseline, then loosen the rear screw ¼ to ½ turn and see what happens.
Also, don’t shoot so fast. The 7 Mag burns a lot of powder and it heats up the bore a lot faster than a 308.
7mag is the limit for alot of people, and its where you’ll see alot of people get really jiggy! Need a definition of jiggy? Thats when your head/shoulder tries to run away from the scope/butt. Its sounds like you shoot plenty, that doesn’t mean your doing it right…I know because I seldom have proper trigger discipline. I would expect your rifle to shoot better than that with good hunting ammunition. Good luck.